2.5" pistons ?????? in 4A

[mistercmo]

Hi folks,
The yellow Singer from NH is now in Texas. I moved from NH to Galveston, TX in 2006 and brought the Singer down. Galveston is a perfect place for the Singer regarding, climate, back roads, etc and I put lots of miles on it before it got swamped by hurricane Ike in 2008. The tidal surge of this hurricane covered Galveston Island in 4 - 10 feet of saltwater. 3 of my cars, 2 70's Lotus 4-seaters and the 1948 Singer all got swamped. They all had their tires on 8" blocks but still got water up to the steering wheel. I got rid of the Lotuses but am working on getting the Singer back on the road. Four days after the hurricane I got to the Singer and hosed ev erything down with fresh water, drained the engine, tranny & diff (all had saltwater in them), superfilled everything with atf, super greased all fittings, then drenched everything in WD40. Then one year to get the house and shop back into shape and now......phew.....back to the Singer.

So, now the engine is apart and I have a piston mystery. The engine was frozen and I had to destroy two pistons to remove them from the bores. The block/bores, crank etc is all good. The pistons that were in the engine are larger than anything in my manuals, bore is 2.500", 4-ring, split skirt,
.562" dia wrist pin. The pistons are marked "+.030"" on the crown. Is it possible that the block is from a 10 or super 10 or...? There is a casting in the block, hidden by the starter motor, showing a "10" and "1117" underneath. I don't see these on my "Balam" (hi Ed!) spare motor.

Any ideas on these pistons and where I might be able to get a set? The car was running fine before it got swamped and the bores are OK, so I'd like to just replace the pistons if I can find a set.

I'll try to post some pics soon.

In the meantme......hello everybody & thanks for any help.

Charlie Seymour

[mikeyr]

do you have a picture of your block ? those numbers are off so maybe you have the wrong motors in the car, does it look very different from your other block ?

[Phillip]

HEY! CHARLIE SEYMOUR!!!

Great to hear from you again, my friend. We have often wondered what became of you and the Singers. Glad to hear that you kept the 'ice cream yellow' Roadster! I remember it at Stowe. Hope you are well!

Now, the Super Ten-meister amongst us is Paul Bouchard, who owns the only one saloon known in NA, but if the engine looks like the 4A one Ed sold you, but has the '10' cast on the side, it is indeed a Ten engine. The bore is larger than the Nine ( 63mm vs 60mm I think ) There are other minor differences where the bypass oil filtering system pipes and fitting are located, but the unit fits perfectly into a Roadster and you can enjoy all that extra power!

Pistons are not that hard to find since there are so few Tens around. Stock sits on the shelf for a long time! Bill Haverly in the UK (ASCO) may have some and I am pretty sure the boys down in Australia would have stock too. Paul would be able to compare your engine number to his to see if it is in range. Are the rod bearings white metal or shell?

JP Pistons in Australia also sell new Singer pistons, so that is another option.

Welcome back!

[Paul Bouchard]

Charlie,

Well fancy meeting you here! Well good move keeping the Singer, but remember... I am rather biased.

It does appear that you have a 10 HP engine there. I have one in my Roadster too (love the extra power... kind of). The 10 HP has 63mm pistons so if these are +30... well you can do the math. The 9 HP and 10 HP are almost identical and easilly identified by the "10" mark in the casting. The other external difference has already been mentionned and involves the the oil return. If you check the engine number (near the inspection hole on the right side of the engine) it will likely start with a "B". If so then we are looking at a Super Ten. The year suffix is the same as the roadsters (Q:47, R:48, S:49, etc.). Post war Super Tens were around through to 49 but that was it for them. The SM1500 Saloon took their place.

Pistons should be available and checking with Bill Haverly in the UK would be a good start. His mailing info should still be in the Flash that comes with the magazine.

Let me know how things go, as it is nice to see another "10" Roadster in the fold.

Paul

[mistercmo]

Hi Everybody.....thanks for the warm and encouraging responses. Attached are some pics of the block and piston. # stamped on block is B7206R

I'l contact Mr Haverly about the pistons, gaskets and other stuff I need. What is the best way to contact him ? Fax? Phone? email?

Is "attaching" the best way to send photos to this board?

cheers,
charlie

[Phillip]

Hey Charlie,

We've missed you in the Singer gang, so it's nice to hear you are back, now all the way in Texas. That should give Pim Visser some encouragement. He's in Granite Shoals. You guys should get together and form the official NASOC-Texas Chapter.

Paul's given all the details on the Ten in his usual thorough style. He likes that Super Ten! As he mentions, Bill H's contact details are in the NEWSFLASH included with every NASOC NEWS. The latest 2 issues ( we're catching up! ) will be in the mail this week. I'd say phone or e-mail would work best. He may take a while to respond to the e-mail, so if you are in a rush, I'd say phone. I'm sure he will have what you need. At +30 the block still has life left in it. +60 is max and pistons are available, but Singer did not really approve of going this high. While you have the engine apart, it will pay to have the block and head boiled out or use an over-the-counter cleaner and rod it out yourself. The water jacket is very narrow and shallow on these engines and it is surprising how much crud can collect in there.

Judging from the suffix on your engine, it seems to be a 1948, so should have white metal 'babbit' rod bearings and shell main bearing.

Good luck with the resto!

[Paul Bouchard]

Hi Charlie,

Well with the "B" prefix it is a post war Super Ten engine that you have there. 7000 series would make it more than half way through the production (for post war).

I remember the surprise that I had when trying to figure out why there was a "10" cast in my block when I was expecting a "9". My engine is a "Q" series (1947) and the mains had shells. The middle main had the side-thrust bearings formed in. The big ends of the con rods were white metal "Babbit" bearings. Luckily these were in good enough shape.

Phillip's advice on boiling out the block (and head) good. When I first rebuilt my 10 engine I thought that I got all of the gunk out, but after getting it back together the engine would overheat. After tearing everything back apart and getting it cleaned out did everything get back to normal.

Bill is an excellent source for 10 and 9 HP engine parts. You can always check with the NASOC parts guy (Dave Green). He may have some gaskets or other sundries.

Have fun and let us know if there is anything that you run into. And keep the photos coming!

Paul

[mistercmo]

my "ten" had shell main bearings with "formed in" thrust bearings, and shell big end bearings.

[Paul Bouchard]

Looks like your engine may have had some modifications. The formed in thrust bearings are correct. All the Super Ten engines would have had the Babbitt bearings for the big ends if the con rods. The conversion is a good idea since finding someone out there who does this is getting tougher all the time.

Paul