4AD Instrument Panel Details

[Paul Bouchard]

Pekka,

The first vinyl dash that I saw was one that Robert Moreau had... well pieces of a dash anyway. Since then I have heard of the vinyl dash Roadsters. Perhaps to compete with the MGs of the era who were doing the same thing or getting away from the wooden look and make things a liitle more modern looking. Either way it is another twist in the chain of "what were they thinking at the time" reverse engineering that we all go through as part of restoring these cars.

I am more of an A and 4A guy. Dave Green is NASOC's 4AD Registrar so I do invite him to correct or add any other tidbits that he has to offer.

From what I have gathered, the vinyl dash colour can also depend on the colour of the steering wheel. Our 4ADT has a tan steering wheel and the biscuit colour dash compliments it nicely. If the steering wheel was black, then grey would make sense. Our car has a grey interior and the coronation blue exterior with the tan steering wheel and dash vinyl. Very nice combination so this was possible that this was the plan from the beginning. With so few cars around to compare (and even so... they all are different) it is hard to know for certain.

The dash material is a leather-like finish and is definitely a non-stretch material. I will get more photos for you in the next few days (behind the dash and the glove box) but in the mean time here are a few more:

The gauges have a rubber gasket behind the bevel.

A close-up of the dash. Leather-like to me! Also note the START and CHOKE knobs.

Out of dash photos, so here is an interior shot with a feature that I have not seen before: A fabric (vinyl) flap behind the door. Keeps the wind and weather out! Also of note is that the 2 side screen mounts are on the exterior of the inner door panel. The As and 4As (and some 4ADs?) had the forward mount behind the inner door panel.

[Paul Bouchard]

Pekka,

Here are some glove-box photos from a 4A. The design (or material) did not change for the 4AD so this should help out. The material is a stiff dense card stock. The box is angled downwards slightly so as not to interfere with the scuttle. Split pins holds it all together and it is screwed to the dash from the back.

[Paul Bouchard]

Pekka,

The 4ADT is not at my house, but at a friend's who is the co-owner (Phillip Avis). He was able to take a photo of the back of the dash for you that highlights how the vinyl is folder under the dash.

[kabu]

Thanks Paul. This is really excellent information and pictures. It seems like your car is very original and untampered, even the wiring behind the dash looks like it has never been touched or altered.

Best Regards
Pekka

[Peter McKercher]

As I mentioned above, I believed that the use of a leather like covering on the fascia of the later Roadsters was standard. Most Singer owners, however, seem to prefer the more classic look of wood, although it is inconsistent with the period. My recollection was that the switch to vinyl covering was not so much a stylistic decision, but one of function, so I looked up some of Bill Haverly's writings on the subject. The following should lend some clarity to the discussion.

Roadster instrument panels had two distinct phases. The stained wood and varnish period lasted until 1952, when a change in panel layout brought about a new appearance, the beige vynide covered dashboard. This development using leathercloth was dictated more by economy than design, and came about in the following way.

All post-war Roadsters had virtually the same panel outline, though on the board some of the smaller instruments moved positions between series. Changes for 1951 series 4AB needed a new hole for a hand dipper switch to the right of the speedo. This feature continued on the early 4ADs but in late 1952 a decision was made to revert to the floor mounted dipper, and relocate the horn button from over the ignition switch to the scuttle rim near the speedo.

These moves left two unsightly holes in stocks of unused panels sitting on the shelf, so a cover up operation was devised. The holes were plugged with wood and leathercloth glued over the top surface. At a stroke panels were salvaged and the appearance of the wood no longer mattered with this neat solution which served until the end of production.

[kabu]

Hi Peter,

This explanation would definately make sense, especially with the apparently bad financial situation of Singer during the production of 4AD's.

One interesting question still is that did they use same vinyl color (and type) for all dashboards or did they come in different colors? The Bill Haverly text that you quoted mentions beige vinyl, the pictures from Paul show tan or biscuit vinyl (I guess this could be called beige). Has anyone seen grey or any other color dash?

BR/
Pekka

[mikeyr]

30 years ago, I was told by Bill that they were all the same color, a rough textured vinyl that was a light tan, lighter than the interior. It was a very thin vinyl so it could be stretched easily and not wrinkle up. The "official" term for it was leatherette. I think the different colors we are seeing is just from fading although yours is gray in areas that should never have faded, is it possible it was replaced at some time ? Like I said it was a very rough texture.

[kabu]

The vinyl pieces on my dash have rough texture and they definately look original and not replaced. It is of course possible that the color has faded or changed during the years even when they have not seen sunlight. If all dashboard were light tan, it would make my car colors, black exterior, red interior and tan dash.

Hmm, there is a lot of diferent terms for this type of materials. Rexine, Vynide and leathercloth are definately British terms. At least Rexine is a thin non stretch type vinyl. Leatherette sounds more US english to me but english is not my first language anyway In Finnish we use term "artificial leather" for this material.

This vinyl from Woolies Trim ( http://www.woolies-trim.co.uk ) seems to have very similar grain pattern that on my dash. Unfortunately they list that type only in green color. Does the grain pattern look correct?

BR/
Pekka

[kabu]

Actually the light/ignition switch detail picture that Paul sent shows well the grain pattern. The vinyl pieces on my das have that same pattern. The sample picture that I just posted has different pattern but still somewhat closer than most of the vinyl materials I have seen.

BR/
Pekka

[Peter McKercher]

I'm unsure on the colour thing. If Bill says there was only one colour, then that's probably accurate. He really is the Roadster expert in the Club. However, I seem to recall that mine was white, matching the steering wheel. However, it was 1969 when I removed it, so I can't say for sure.

[kabu]

I just talked with Bill Haverly on the phone. He confirmed that all the vinyl dashboards he has seen have been tan colour and the vinyl covering started in 1953 to cover the extra holes in the dashboard stock left befause of the layout change.

He also said that most of the 4AD's he has seen are early production 1953 models and has not seen that many late 4AD's. Bill said it might be possible that on late model 4AD's Singer used also other color dashboards to match the exterior color. I guess it comes to the typicat fact with Singers, expect the unexpected

I really need to examine the remains of the vinyl on my dash to figure out whether it can originally have been tan or is it definately grey.

BR/
Pekka

[Peter McKercher]

Mine was a late 4AD twin carb sold in '55

[jkdelphi]

I have been in possession of my 4ADT since 1965 and removed the faux leather material a couple of years later because it was damaged and otherwise looked like crap. It was indeed, the same beige/cream color pictured in Paul Bouchard's images on page 2 of this communication. I recall that it was glued to the wood. I found the wood to be far better in appearance than the leatherette and so left it, despite that it was not original.
Ken Kavanagh
Delphi, Indiana

[Phillip]

Hey Pekka,

I hope that Dave Green, NASOC’s very able 4AD Registrar will not mind me stepping into his arena!

My area of expertise is mainly pre-war Singer sports cars, but I was very interested to read about your Roadster restoration as I’ve also owned two A series and a 4A, whilst currently owning half shares in another 4A and a 4ADT. The 4ADT is the one that Paul has been posting pictures of and it is amazingly original.

The discussion on dashboard covering is something I have had some experience with over the years. Both Bill Haverly and Ashley Crossland are old mates of mine and I have spent time discussing the vagaries of Roadster details with them both over in the UK. Here’s what I can add to the topic based on my personal observations and chats with these two acknowledged Roadster Experts.

I have personally seen four cars that I recall used leatherette on the dash. The first was on a ’54 that I restored for a friend back in 1980. The car was black with red interior, like yours, and had an ivory dash, glove box and steering wheel. This colour was more-or-less the same as the colour used in the dashboard gauges. The steering wheel center cover with the ‘SM’ logo was a dark brown. The second car belongs to Lori Sellor, also a ’54. This car is a gun metal silver with red interior. The dash is almost an off-white colour but the steering wheel is the ivory. Kenlis Pearce has a '54 4ADT with a light tan dash and matching steering wheel, although this car has been fully restored and I'm guessing it has all been painted to match. Finally, the ’54 4ADT that Paul and I own is Coronation Blue with grey interior, but has a honey coloured tan dash and an ivory steering wheel with a brown center. Again, the ivory is the same as the gauges. The glove box is ivory also. Interestingly, the wheel is actually painted the ivory colour and is certainly original as the unexposed center proves. When I stripped off the paint on the rim, I discovered that the plastic is actually a darker creamy-tan. I’ve repaired the cracks using an epoxy product called PC-11 and will repaint the rim with an epoxy paint which I’ve used with great success on other Roadster steering wheels.

What I find fascinating about this sort of auto-archaeology is putting the cars back into the context of the times they were born in to help explain why something was done the way it was. In talking to Bill and Ashley, it became clear that Singer varied the details on the cars according to the suppliers that sold parts to them as well as the materials they had in stock. Early 1950’s Britain was a place of austerity and Singer was still fighting with the government to get funding to rebuild their bombed factories. Materials were scarce and were allotted to those companies that brought in the most money from exports. The view was, “Export or Die”. Ashley said he has seen a wide variety of woods used on Roadster body frames beyond the ash we normally expect. In fact, according to Bill, the wooden dash, for example, was made from Obechee, but I’ve owned two cars that had original mahogany dashboards.

Anyway, considering all the above, my guesstimate is that the leatherette on the dash was generally intended to match the steering wheel when the wheel was not black. That ‘standard’ was probably the ivory, but they used whatever was at hand that they could get away with. If the wheel was supplied in a non-standard colour, they painted it accordingly.

The leatherette dash was certainly a cheap way to try and ‘modernise’ the 4AD in the same way that MG used leatherette on the dash of the TD. Grey was an interior colour used by Singer in ’54, as were tan and red. It would be very interesting to see if your grey dash really matches the grey used in our 4ADT. The grain pattern and colour of the leatherette piping you show in your photo looks very similar to that of our 4ADT. It looks similar to the ‘rhino hide’ I’ve seen on Land Rovers. The leatherette of our honey tan dash is the more traditional ‘pebble grain’.

If you still need a pattern for the glove box, we have one supplied by Bill Haverly. The box is made out of a cardboard that has an embossed pebble grain on it to make it look like leatherette. It is one piece folded around and held together with what look like thin metal bifurcated rivets. The surface seems to be painted on our car, but, again, it is hard to tell if it might have been a thin coloured layer of something on top of the cardboard.

If you need any other photos or information on our car, please feel free to ask either Paul or me.

Cheers,
Phillip Avis, Editor & Pre-War Registrar, NASOC

[djcraig]

PHILIP . . .welcome back to the forum . . .after so much time !!!!!!!!
I'll take credit/blame for first mentioning the PLEATHER . . . but if it served to get you back into the on-line family, then so be it.
I've failed to find a Singer here in central Florida but will continue the search next Fall when Liz & I return.
See you all at Stowe this September.
Dave Craig (Still in FL . . dont ask)