The Restoration of AYW709

[mikeyr]

So, this is how you fit a A-Series motor in . I posted a few weeks ago that the motor was in and it fit...well it didn't exactly fit.
You have to cut out about 2" of the A-Series motor front plate in order for it to fit almost centered in the chassis and to give the carburetors clearance from the side of the hood. Different carbs may not have this issue but my twin-SU's did, maybe a single carb would not.

Then after placing the motor, I found I still had a clearance problem, the hose on the carb fuel intake would not fit as-is

So that was a easy fix, take the top off a float bowl from a AUD173F carb and replace the top on the AUD136F carb with that part, now I have clearance...barely but clearance and this likely would have worked by itself.

But I have my son-in-law's Mini here and noticed his manifold is much shorter and the carb spacers are only 1/4" thick so I got a 12G 299 manifold for a Mini and saved over inch, then with the new spacers, I really have room now. Don't pay attention to the wrong carb in this pic, I was experimenting.

And here you can see the difference in the 2 manifolds and spacers.

Now of course, you knew this was not going to be that easy, the Mini exhaust hugs the motor to clear the firewall, but a Sprite/Midget does not, so the intake manifold is almost sitting on the exhaust manifold, I can slide a piece of paper, so not touching but too close. I will fix that when I bend up the headers since I will make them hug the motor like on a mini, I will likely take Mini headers and cut the the base off and reweld it as I have no interest in making headers from scratch, I tried the Mini's header and I have plenty of clearance but since the Mini is transverse mounted of course the bottom faces the. wrong way, easy cut/weld fix.

Pretty sure a original manifold would work, just a slight bend in the downpipes to fit but headers will be a better fit

Since I have to take it off again, I didnt bother with the heat shield but plenty of clearance now. Even room for pancake air filters.

And now I have about 3/8" to 1/2" clearance for the distributor cap and before it was rubbing on the steering column.

you will notice I went with a side exhaust distributor cap also, to give me even a little more room. I think its all done now, but never one to leave well enough alone, I am going to make a new steering bracket and move the steering gear about 3/8" toward the frame menber, I don't want to drill new holes in the frame crosmember and not enough room in the existing bracket for new holes, so a new bracket will be made. I verified that there is plenty of room for the steering crossmember to be moved 3/8" and also for the SLC/2 switch if I use mine at all. That will give me even more playroom. Of course the steering wheel will be moved over by that much OR if kept at the same location it will now be crooked in the car and not parallel to the dashboard...of course I have a solution for that. I will keep the wheel parallel by moving it a little bit AND go with a 16" wheel instead of the original 17" wheel, that will keep the wheel at the same location to the cowl so now one should notice. Going with 16" to get some knee room inside the car and also because well, I can't buy 17 inchers but they make 16"'s

And voila all the design work is DONE, engine is in, nearly centered with plenty of clearance all around. No new holes, no anything cut on the original chassis, I can go back to original pretty easily.

Now to work on the clutch part, since the clutch pedal on the LM is mounted to the gearbox but not on the Sprite/Midget, I have to weld up some parts to make that happen, I have the drawings and measurements from the UK club so that should be easy but I might try to figure out to put in the Spridget hydraulic clutch in instead of converting to mechanical. Either way, I can follow the drawings quickly so that might be the best route, but hydraulic would be nice, I assume the Spridget clutch is pretty stiff in mechanical mode.

[ColinB]

Looks like a good result Mike!

[mikeyr]

So trying to fit the front wing. I am happy with the fit so far but still working on it. Does the front wing end at the front spring hanger or in front of it ? And my front valence seems to hang out a mile in front of the chassis.

So do I cut the front valence to force it further back or move the front wing back? As you can see in one of the pics the valence is limited as to how far it goes back by the wing but I could cut it some. I could also move the wing further back.

[ColinB]

Looking at pictures on line it seems that the wing flare finishes a couple of inches in front of the radiator, and the radiator also sets up the location for the valance. From the shape of the valance it looks like it is supposed to fit closely over the front spring hanger so those two immovable points (spring hanger and rad) will tend to govern everything. Ideally you would go and look at one to compare, but that may not be possible. My opinion is to make it look right to you

[mikeyr]

Thank You Colin, you said something that made sense to me and I feel stupid for having been trying to make this work the wrong way, you said I needed to work the front valence first and that lit up like a light bulb. I started cutting the valence so it would fit with the radiator shell, it was too narrow initially and then today in the SingerFlash was this pic.

. Which shows the location of the valence, that may or not be correct but its on that car and the first good pic I have seen of a valence so I made mine fit the same.

. Now I like the fit much better and I am not done yet still some playing around to do.

Next is to cut those pieces on the wing so that the wing can tighten up against the body, I had "Assumed" that the wing would fit without me cutting anything since I thought the wings would be close to correct. But I will cut those 2 tabs so they fit tight against the wood. ( its metal, if I am wrong, I can weld it back)

Last item will be the front wing support, it has quite a curve at the top and does not fit flush against the front wing, I can shim it, but I think I will just heat it up and bend it. The 2 supports were welded to my chassis when I purchased the car and held the cycle fenders so they likely got bent out of shape anyway.

. The support at the very top is out by a good 3/4" to 1" from the wing.

Only question is do I try to move the front wing even further back ? now that I have decided to cut the tabs to fit the body, I can easily move it back more, the end of the wing is now about 1 1/2" behind the seem for the door jamb, I have seen wings flush with it and several inches back also.

One last thing to figure out, that silly bracket that bolts to the chassis and supports the back of the front wing, I don't have those brackets so have to bend some metal up and make it work, I have some pretty good pics of what it should look like.

[ColinB]

if it looks right it is right Mike, and that looks right to me!

[jeans_old_man]

Can't help with the earlier valance but the 1935 version tucks under the rad surround - no gap!

[jeans_old_man]

and how it was in 1967 with a handsome young man behind the wheel Not a bad buy for £80!

[Peter McKercher]

Mike
Looks like you have the wings right. I had to adjust the flap that goes against the bulkhead as well. The angle was wrong and the piece overlapped the scuttle too much, so I had to cut to fit.

Here are some shots of the valence. The one on the sports is original and the one on the Le Mans was from Hardwicks. I had to do a lot of cutting on it. One thing you don't have are the tangs on the valance which go below the radiator surround, presumably to hold it down.

Note that the valance is secured at each side by the spring bolt. It is a stepped bolt - large where it secures the spring to the chassis and small where the valance wing nut secures the valance.

[mikeyr]

Great, now I have to find that step Bolt and wing nut. I’ve seen it on several cars, but seen more cars without it then with it, so I was not worried. I like those little tangs to keep the valence down. I probably will weld some up.

Todays task is move the valence further back which means cutting on the bottom to clear the leaf spring. It hits that right now. Having fun fitting this though it feels like progress

[Peter McKercher]

I had to make the stepped bolts. As you have noticed, they are usually missing as are the wing nuts.

You will also see on the side of the valance there is a notched hole where the bolt fits through. The wing nut actually goes through this. It is not tightened against the valance. The notch allows the valance to clear the stepped bolt when slipping it on. Once the valance is in place, the wing nut is tightened. The notch is too small to pass over the wing nut.

The notched hole is made from a large washer which is welded to a metal strap about 5" X 1/12" which is welded on to the valance. I can take more pics if you need.

[mikeyr]

I think I understand...pics always help. I am very surprised that a suspension bolt would do double duty, it would seem that if the wing nut got stuck/rusty/damaged that it could turn the bolt and help it come loose. But ok, I will find some longer bolts and turn them down, I don't see them in Hardwick's catalog. If I understand correctly the wing nut has a shoulder that goes into the cutout and the front of that cutout is only bolt diameter so the valence gets trapped. Where did you find the wing nut ? I can probably find them but if you have already, save me some time. Pouring over the pics I have on my computer of a lot of cars, its running about 50/50 with and without that wing nut, some that I know are original without and at least one that I know is original with.

Going to do more cutting today to slide the front valence back another 1" or so, that means cutting on the bottom to clear the suspension and I had avoided that until now, then I will figure out the height of the tangs/tabs at the back and weld that up.

I don't know why I started doing this over my vacation week, I had planned on making up a new steering gear bracket during my vacation and getting the engine bolted in its final location but fitting the wings seemed like more fun

[Peter McKercher]

You have the concept correct. I will get some more pics though.

I had one original wing nut, so I had four new ones cast. I still have the original if you want to have some cast for yourself. I don't know of any source for them. Maybe someone in the SOC knows. I would image that all the '34 Le Mans cars had the wing nuts. Most have been lost along the way.

I don't think there is any issue with interference on the spring bolt. The wing nuts are finger tight only. Personally I frequently have the valance off anyway.

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[mikeyr]

progress and no progress. So I fitted the front valence where I think it should be based on pictures, fitted the wings to fit, then I put the hood/bonnet on...OOPS, no fit. Major interference with the wings and nothing was close, duh, I should know better. So I moved the wings forward about 3" which is where I had them several months ago and they fit with the hoot/bonnet but now front valence is back to sticking out in front of the car a foot (not really but too far). I didn't want to cut the valence anymore to fit since it has a "fold" along the back for re-enforcing and I didn't want to cut into that but i will have to. Going to unfold it, cut and re-fold OR spot weld a separate piece for the re-enforcing, I assume it is there for a reason but ARGHHHH nothing is fitting.

And son-in-law's Mini is back my shop, pretty sure he forgot to install the oil thrower on the front of crankshaft, there is a seal there and I can see it but oil is just pouring out the front pulley only when motor is running. We had 3 engines apart and had 3 oil throwers, have 2 engines together (one in my car, one in his Mini) and yet have 2 oil throwers on the bench. I can clearly see I installed mine, since I have pictures as I assembled the motor so out comes the radiator, front engine cover and fix that on his car.

In the meantime, I am working on the dashboard, steering gear bracket, internal door lock mechanism and the wing nuts that hold the valence on, so keeping busy. I am waiting on the one nut from Peter and then will cast that and the internal door lock part at same time but I need to get the body parts finished and primer'd too...I need to retire so I can work on the car all 7 days.

[mikeyr]

ok, thousand picture post, nasty rant and not sure what else but here goes.

NOTHING FITS !!!

For the new people, my car had no fenders/wings when I purchased it so these are Hardwick steel wing replicas.

How were the 1934 wings fitted and attached to the car ? specifically 34 without running boards. I assumed that they were bolted to the chassis rail somewhere and I clamped them down to try and make them fit, they sit off the chassis rail so clamping down and forcing them into place created a large POP and nice crease in the wing with a really nasty twist. Cost me the better part of a entire 8 hour day, shrinking/stretching/hammer/dolly to get it back to where I started, with it not fitting. Thinking that off the chassis rail is wrong, I even tried wood shims to get the front of the hood/bonnet to remotely come close to fitting but then the rear of the wing was almost touching the ground and that is how i tweaked it to begin with. So, lets begin with HOW they were originally bolted down. Then I realized there is no place to bolt it down and It appears based on holes in the chassis rail that there is one bolt up front by the dumb iron, then the 2 that hold the headlight bar and 2 (I think, maybe only 1) at the rear on bracket bolted to the chassis. Is that really all that holds them in place ??? If it is, its no wonder they have such a small motor because at 88MPH (the speed needed for a Delorean to achieve time travel) the wings would flap to the point the car would achieve take off.

Were there other brackets that I am missing ? there are no unused bolt holes in my chassis. Did the wing shelf for lack of a better word really sit about 1" off the chassis ? Does anything get screwed into/bolted through the wood of the cowl ? I think not based on my old wood.

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As you can see I had to bend the wing shelf down quite a ways to touch the chassis, i have decided either the wings are very wrong and very badly made or it should not be this way and there is either a gap or I am missing some parts. I do know there is a issue with differences between right and left wing that i am not sure how i will fix yet, hammer and dolly may not fix it and bondo would be too thick and crack so I may need to lead that part, disappointed in the differences but not a complaint. Right now the issues is fitting them.

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And lastly, I have given up fitting the hood/bonnet completely, there is NO way, ZERO WAY to make it even remotely fit no matter how much I move the wings up/down/forward/backwards. I even considered cutting my brand new radiator shell so that the hood would not be that far up but then that would mess up the hood itself which fits on the cowl quite nicely, some minor fitting needed. The hood/bonnet either has a 3/4" gap at the front lifts the hood in the back about 3/4" from the cowl OR if I make the rear fit, then the hood interferes with after the wing slope and has about 1 1/2" gap at the front. I will be fitting the wings best I can and then take a cutting torch to the hood sides to make them fit. My plan is after bolting down every thing solid, I will make a straight cut near the top of the hood side by the hinge and cut off about 1" there, that will allow the louvers on the side of the hood to match the louvers on the front cowl, right now they are lower on the hood, i think they would look better matching since they are the same louvers. Then I will wire roll a new bottom part and cut the bottom of the side off and reweld a new wire edged piece to fit. Never done a wire edge before but it looks pretty easy.

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Pretty scared of that much welding since its a recipe for warping the sheet metal all over the place but that is my only choice I think, at least I do have a TIG to minimize the warping (I hope).

I am taking a break for a week to relax, we all know that good Muslims have to go to Mecca at least once in their life, well all good car guys like myself and anyone on this forum, should go to Mecca once in their life, I am off for my annual pilgrimage to Laguna Seca Historics, the Mecca of car guys. (actually going to pre-historics because the actual historics the weekend after are getting stupid expensive, but i have been to historics since the first one in 1974, so done my duty and going to pre-s now.

So, how are these wings held on ?