Direction Indicator Mystery on Roadsters

[kabu]

I am quite confused about the direction indicator installation on Singer Roadsters. Some earlier models seem to have trafficator openings on the side panels behind the door. Most cars, especially the later ones do not have these openings. The drawing by Bill Haverley shown in the technical section of this website with different configurations of Roadster instrument panels show the location of the direction indicator switch. Strangely though, the wiring diagram of the Roadster does not show any information relate to direction indicator switch, wiring, lamps, relays or trafficators.

So my question is that what kind of direction indicators there were in the Roadsters? Since I am restoing a late 1954 4ADT, I am epecially interested what was the original configuration for this model. I can surely tell that the body of my car does not have nor has ever had trafficator openings behind the doors.

Can it be so that the direction indicators were not a standard equipment on these cars? Even as late as 1954? Were the trafficators standard issue on the earlier cars but later dropped off but were not replaced by flashers as on most other cars, that would seem pretty weird? I have surely seen a lot of different flasher lamp installations on various pictures of these Roadsters.

BR/
Pekka

[Peter McKercher]

Peka
I too had a late '54 4ADT and it was equipped with trafficators in the normal place behind the doors. Certainly indicators of some sort would be mandatory.

[mikeyr]

Trafficators were OPTIONAL !

They were not required in the U.S. and were merely a extra cost (but way cool) option. If you paid extra you got them, if not you did not. I assume that they were required in some areas then the cars were sold with them in those places.

To be honest, I am surprised they were not required by the DOT at the time, I am guessing but this is a total guess that it had to do with the number of cars that Singer imported, for example the 2005-2007 Lotus Elise had several exemptions due to the limited number of cars imported, the 2008 models lost those exemptions.

As far as modern day rules go, it varies by state and even by country for example in Calif. I don't have to have tail/brake lights if I can prove that the car did not have them when new. I was concerned for my Le Mans and I was told by the Highway Patrol to just be ready to be stopped by every officer that ever sees the car and have the paper work to show him it did not have them new and I will be fine...NO I will have proper lights, including a third stop on the spare wheel. Other states will require proper lighting.

Another example is that in the State of California the 4AD trafficators are ILLEGAL ! it is illegal to have anything on the car that sticks out, this is a left over from the law that outlawed wheel knockoffs to prevent harm to pedestrians, so while I can have trafficators on the car because they are original, they are illegal to use. I use them regularly and I have never been stopped for it but a friendly CHP officer told me that when he stopped me for speeding and I used the turn-signals to move to the right lane, its in the books but I bet almost no officers know it.

As far as later years not having them, that is interesting, all my 53's had them, one of my 54's did and the other did not, my 55 did not, but I never put 2+2 together until now, I wonder if it had to do with Singer going down the tubes and no longer offering the trafficator option. One of the very stupid things of youth, when I purchased my 4AD in 1974 the seller gave me the original sales contract that specifically listed the louvered hood, performance camshaft, hood hold down strap and trafficator options on it, stupidly I threw it away not knowing at the time how wonderful it would be to have it now. Earl Cass who had purchased 2 of his 3 4AD's brand new, he had trafficators on his wife's car (54) but not his(53), he said it was too expensive an option but he thought his wife's car should have them. I don't remember if the 3rd 4AD had them or not.

All 4AD's I have ever seen with trafficators had the switch in the middle of the dashboard originally, many had been moved because the switch had broken or whatever reason but that is the only place I have seen a switch that was original. That switch is worth its weight in gold, I have never found another car with it although many are similar and very few people would know what the correct switch is.

[kabu]

Thanks MIke,

So it seems that my car did not have any indicators when it left the factory, since it definately do not have the trafficator openings behind the door.

I'm not sure about what the Finnish law said that time but I guess indicators were not mandatory back then.

I need to figure out what to do then, some indicators would definately be good to cope in modern traffic. Flashers would be preferred since other drivers understand them. Maybe I'll use brake lights in back and install separate motorcycle type flashers front.

As far as I have seen pictures of Singer Roadster instrument panels, the correct indicator switch they used might be this Lucas type http://www.gregorysautoparts.co.uk/cata ... ?t=0&c=483 That switch is also available in cream color. Does that look correct?

Pekka

[indian301]

Peka,

My trafficators were long gone when I bought my car and someone had fiberglassed over the holes. To maintain a stock appearance I rewired the rear tail lights on my 1952 4AD to use a 3 wire socket. Up front I used two small motorcycle style lights and rewired the fender running lights to also be flashers. You could easily just use the fender lamps as flashers to maintain a stock appearance.

Dave
V-6 4AD

[BRG]

Pekka,

That switch is not correct for the 4AD. It would work and the indicator light is great if it is non self cancelling unit to remind you your trafficator is out.
BRG

[mikeyr]

Dave is correct, that is not the correct turn signal switch. It is however the commonly used substitute.

A not very good picture of the correct switch on my car

[Mark Thompson]

I had a similar dilemma when I restored my 1952 4AD. I was totally unfamiliar with anything Singer (except sewing machines) when I started my project. When I got far enough along to restore the body, I found slots behind the doors that had been "bondoed" over and had galvanized backing strips on the inside of the panels. The brackets for mounting the trafficators were there as well as the wires on the harness. I did some research and found some trafficators and restored them to working order. I would not consider restoring a Singer without them. They are too unique and draw loads of attention whenever they are deployed.

I also struggled with the wiring for proper turn indicators. When I initially wired up the trafficators with a flasher unit, they blinked but they also waved (up &down). I knew that that wasn't satisfactory! I found a schematic for a motorcycle and was able to modify it and use it. It works quite satisfactorily. This schematic uses a standard relay, flasher unit and rectifier diodes all readily available. The end result is that the front running lights blink, the existing rear taillights blink, the trafficators light up and stay deployed and all external appearances are original. This system of course requires that the running lights are turned on whenever you are driving, which isn't a bad idea anyway. The only
drawback is that since the rear tailight only has two filaments, the running light filament blinks. When the brakes are applied, the brake light (higher wattage) overpowers the running light and the blinking filament is barely discernible. However, if you apply your turn sgnals early (before braking) and have working trafficators, everyone should know which direction you are going before you apply your brakes.

I shared this schematic with several people at the "Mad Dogs & Englishmen" car show this past summer. If anyone is interested in the schematic, I will try to find it, scan it, and figure out how to post it here. Otherwise, if only a few are interested, send me your address and I will mail you a copy. Hope this is useful.

Best Regards,
Mark Thompson

P.S. Just a few minutes ago I received a package of Singer literature that I purchased on E-bay. Included was an original sales brochure from a West coast dealer. The brochure was for a 4A. The electrical equipment and instruments description includes the following: "Horn push and self-cancelling trafficator-control on steering wheel". Any comments??

[kabu]

Thanks for all replies,

Yes, trafficators are cool, but I am definately not going to cut holes on the intact aluminum side panels.

I will propably go for making flashers so that they use brake light filaments back and separate motorcycle style flashers attached to the bumper front. I think I will use an indicator switch that clamps to the steering wheel column, that is easier to use and does not require drilling any extra holes to the dashboard. The most elegant and period solution for the electrical connection would be using Lucas DB10 relay, which in made for this application and was used on many 1950's British cars.
http://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/product/167
http://www.autoelectricsupplies.co.uk/f ... iagram.jpg

BTW Mark, why did you connect the rear flashers to use running light? Flashing brake lights was a common solution in British cars in 1950s and early 1960's and of course in american cars even until today.

BR/
Pekka

[mikeyr]

The brochure was for a 4A. The electrical equipment and instruments description includes the following: "Horn push and self-cancelling trafficator-control on steering wheel". Any comments??

4A is not a 4AD ? could that be my smartaleck comment ? Seriously, I have never seen a "factory" steering wheel trafficator control on the 4AD, but I also have not seen every 4AD ever built and being British and Singer, no 2 were exactly alike.

I have seen steering column controls on the 4A and 4AD but not from the factory. My only thought would be the dealer put them on to try and improve sales.

[indian301]

Singer my not have been able to purchase the Trafficators. In the case of Indian motorcycles. The last year of production was 1953. Indian had been using Linkert carburators since the early to mid thirties. Because of the low production run in 1953, Linkert refused to sell Indian the carburators. That is why the last Indians came with the British Amal. Mike R. said that someone had purchased at least two new 4ADs. One with and one without trafficators. Maybe the expensive price was due to low sales. Pekka stated that there were no rectagular holes in the body for them. If Finland did not require some type of flasher; who would spend the extra money for them?

Dave
Singer V-6 4AD

[CarMan35]

Just saw this string. I'm not an expert in this, but I believe that 1954 was the year of the big change in US vehicular lighting specs. Prior to that, turn signals were not mandatory in this country. They were standard on many US Cars by that time, but mainly the more expensive models. Since these Singers were intended for export, they would have followed the market specs. When the DOT specs came out, they were very specific, in order to establish standards for intensity, location, number and size of all lights. Trafficators were still widely used in Europe at that time. As mentioned, certain aspects of the US spec incorporated limitations that worked toward uniformity. Trafficators were never used on US spec cars, even prior to this time, as far as I know, so they were always "alien" and confusing here. Side marker lights were not required in the US until 1968, but they were always present on Euro spec cars, which we thought odd at that time. While there was always an eye toward standardization for export by the mfrs, the lawmakers never made that a priority, so local opinions and traditions governed the laws that regulated vehicle specs, and international differences were prevalent. Some still are, as you see yellow headlights on French cars, and RHD on British spec cars. Bumper standard variations are also readily apparent. The driving position is a hard one to change, and it is anybody's guess if that will ever happen, but lighting can change in a minute. If you recall, covered headlights were not legal in the US, and some states (All states adopt federal laws to make initial legislation writing easier. Changes come later, when time permits.) were slow to change their laws. For example, in the case of PA, lighting laws stayed on the books after changes were made throughout the US. The best example of this involves the 1967 Pontiac Grand Prix, which came with hidden headlights. They were still illegal in PA, so the cars sold in that state had visible headlights. Aimable headlights (sealed beams) were required in the US since about 1949, and the specs were very rigid, not changing at all until 1975, when the new rectangular headlamps hit the market. Part of the reason for that was to give the garages an opportunity to buy standardized aiming equipment, which fitted onto the three aiming nibs cast into the glass lens. Prior to the sealed beams, US lights had individual small bulbs, The original sealed beam design was like the old originals, but the metal backing housing and reflector was permanently attached to the lense and was sealed with a rubber gasket. These lights actually had little bulbs inside the sealed housing. This evolved into the familiar vacuum one-piece sealed beam glass bulb that we know from modern times. With the advent of Halogen lighting in Europe, pressure built here, and now individual halogen (or other) bulbs in aimable housings are the norm. This was a big boon to the stylists, who had always lobbied for such freedoms. Newer English makes, such as Jaguar seemed unready to meet US Specs when they found a sudden market in the US. Their cars weree designed originally for the home market, but after WWII, the entire British economy was aimed at export. Just to get steel, they had to export, so the effort was on to meet foreign specs, especially those of the targeted big US market, where interest in British sports cars was new and aggressive. Slow response resulted in quite a mix in the specs for lighting, as they responded to the need to change certain visible components, first. My 1956 Jaguar XK-140, the first Jag intended from the start as a US Spec model, had trafficator-style light switches, wired through a very interesting regulator-style Lucas housing that distributed the current to the various places around the car via a series of small relays packed into the housing. The car had no trafficators, nor side lamps, though the earlier sedans from the era, designed around 1949 and in the mid-50s either had them, or their evidence was apparent. It was economically best to use standard components already on their parts shelves, so the traficator cars and the US cars used the same switching, but different wiring, of course. Early VW beetles had them, too, reflecting Euro practice and the heavy British influence, as it was the Brits who brought the Wolfsburg factory back into production after the war. When the beetle became a hot commodity in the US, many changes were made quickly, including increased power, the convenience of synchro trans, loss of trafficators and eventually the loss of covered headlights, larger windows, larger taillight housings to hold new turn signal bulbs and better bumpers, to protect against the huge US car battering rams. Note that the big bumpers are the first thing you notice when you see an XK-140 next to the earlier XK-120, which had only nerf-style bumperettes. To sell on this market, the cars had to be US federalized. These cars and the Jags had worlwide appeal, and they were therefore built to many standards at the same time, making export departments a critical element in company makeup. Newer Jag body styles had to change with the times, and the early XK-E types were much more beautiful than the later models, which had their lighting raised, uncovered and enlarged, each change uglier than the last, as US Standards evolved and changed. The replacement XJ-S models wee designed from the start with international changes in mind, similar to the trend at Mercedes, and the headlights in particular had sexy glass covers for world specs, but ugly-looking sealed beams for the US. Those Euro-spec cars were strictly illegal for import into the US, and companies here specialized in changeovers, which were muddied even further by the new EPA requirements for clean air homologation and the weird bumper standards. In this case, the rest of the world finally had an impact on the US lawmakers, as pressures from the car hobbylist-lobbyists led to new laws that opened up the specs to Euro-style, especially noted in the headlight areas, with the first changes in 1975. Now, the sky is the limit, in keeping with the rest of the world, and cars are much more standardsized in the new world economy market, which also makes it easier for US mfrs to buld cars that can be sold around the world, with little conversion. Ultimately, profit runs the design.
John Slusar

[Paul Bouchard]

Or they just look cool.

Just kidding John! WOW that is a lot of neat information! It is interesting to see how changing rules for car manufacturers have, in a way, moulded the way that cars look today. I remember being at the Singer Centenary and Phillip driving a 1929 Singer Senior "loaned" to us by Colin Borley. The foot pedal arrangement was different to todays cars. If I remember correctly, the throttle pedal was in the middle of teh clutch and brake. I remember chatting with a fellow at a local show about the Model T Ford. It too had an interesting pedal arrangement.

We have come a long way!

[CarMan35]

I'm extremely busy at this moment, and cannot get into the real details of explanation, but I recently built a complete new wiring harness for my race car. It has non-functional trafficators. I solved the problem of the two-filament tail lights by incorporating a readily-available "Hoppy" trailer wiring electronic device into my harness, intended for allowing a vehicle with separate turn indicator bulbs to supply a trailer having no extra turn signal filament at its rear. It will take more time than I have now to explain the circuit and the "trick" that I had to come up with to fool the device into working on this car, but this is definitely a way to convert your Singer to a tail light system that uses the bright filaments for brake and signal, and the dimmer filament for tail light functions. If anyone wants to follow up on this, please post, and I will get back to writing more details. The Hoppy adapter sells commonly for around $25.
John Slusar

[wmcvey]

I had a similar dilemma when I restored my 1952 4AD. I was totally unfamiliar with anything Singer (except sewing machines) when I started my project. When I got far enough along to restore the body, I found slots behind the doors that had been "bondoed" over and had galvanized backing strips on the inside of the panels. The brackets for mounting the trafficators were there as well as the wires on the harness. I did some research and found some trafficators and restored them to working order. I would not consider restoring a Singer without them. They are too unique and draw loads of attention whenever they are deployed.

I also struggled with the wiring for proper turn indicators. When I initially wired up the trafficators with a flasher unit, they blinked but they also waved (up &down). I knew that that wasn't satisfactory! I found a schematic for a motorcycle and was able to modify it and use it. It works quite satisfactorily. This schematic uses a standard relay, flasher unit and rectifier diodes all readily available. The end result is that the front running lights blink, the existing rear taillights blink, the trafficators light up and stay deployed and all external appearances are original. This system of course requires that the running lights are turned on whenever you are driving, which isn't a bad idea anyway. The only
drawback is that since the rear tailight only has two filaments, the running light filament blinks. When the brakes are applied, the brake light (higher wattage) overpowers the running light and the blinking filament is barely discernible. However, if you apply your turn sgnals early (before braking) and have working trafficators, everyone should know which direction you are going before you apply your brakes.

I shared this schematic with several people at the "Mad Dogs & Englishmen" car show this past summer. If anyone is interested in the schematic, I will try to find it, scan it, and figure out how to post it here. Otherwise, if only a few are interested, send me your address and I will mail you a copy. Hope this is useful.

Best Regards,
Mark Thompson

P.S. Just a few minutes ago I received a package of Singer literature that I purchased on E-bay. Included was an original sales brochure from a West coast dealer. The brochure was for a 4A. The electrical equipment and instruments description includes the following: "Horn push and self-cancelling trafficator-control on steering wheel". Any comments??

Thanks for all the info and help. Bill