What coolant to use

[George]

Hi everyone,

Perhaps a bit of a dummies question here, but I'm soon going to do an oil and coolant change on my 1932 Sports, but unsure of what coolant to use. Thought I'd get some suggestions from the community as this is the first time doing a change on the car, so wanted to know what other people use.

I was also having some running issues with the car a few months ago, which was put down to a heap of rust in the carbs. I've just had a brand new fuel tank fabricated, cleaned out the fuel lines and inline filter, and blasted the carbs out with carb cleaner. After some adjustment to the carbs, its now idling lovely.

However, any short stab of the accelerator pedal seems to starve the car of fuel and cause it to nearly stall. My next step was to fit new spark plugs and rule out that potential cause, but does anyone have any suspicions what else could be causing the problem?

Cheers,
George

[nth]

Hello George
I'm using std blue antifreeze mix.
On idle vs rev - what carbs is you'rs using?

[George]

Hi Neil,

Thanks for your help - Didn't know if there was a preference to ready mixed or mix yourself stuff so cheers.

And the carbs are twin Zenith 26 VF-3.

I've actually bought 2 of these kits here:

http://zenithcarb.co.uk/service-kit-sui ... 20866.html

And thought it might just be worth having them serviced

[jeans_old_man]

Cars made before 1998 usually need antifreeze that isn't OAT-based and that contains silicate. Use IAT antifreeze which is readily available & usually marked ' for older engines'. Draining and refilling a car every winter is not a good idea. Every time you add fresh water to the engine you are adding oxygen that combines with the metal to form rust.

The oil should also be suitable for older cars. The cam lobes on old engines require a zinc additive to combat high friction. Halfords sell an oil fror classic cars but the only oil I know that specifies high zinc content is Rye oil which has ZDDP content of 1500 ppm.

Re poor idling - I had similar problems when I fitted a replacement contact breaker. The problem improved when I put back the old one. It turned out that the spring on the new part was far stronger than the original and was interfering with the advance mechanism. In the end I fitted electronic contacts and the idling is much smoother now.

[George]

Thanks for the advice Brian!

I have an empty container of Penrite Shelsley Light oil which I was told I should use for the next oil change, so I've just bought a 5 litre one of those. So while doing so I've bought a Penrite Coolant which, like you say, isn't OAT-based and should be fine for the car. I believe the current coolant hasn't been changed in about 3 years so I think that's about ready for a change but don't have a tester to back that up. But the Penrite Coolant I've just purchased said it lasts for 3 years so sounds like a good rule of thumb.

Regarding the engine running issues - Its actually idling nicely. The problem I'm having is when giving it some gas and the engine almost seems starved of fuel

[nth]

Hello George
I'm sorry I can't help on carbs. My '33 Sports has twin Solex as a SS (LeMans) engine from new.
Cheers
Neil

[George]

Hi Neil,
No problem thanks anyway! From looking at various images of Singer 9 engine bays on Google, it seems mine is the only one to not have the original carbs in place.

[Phillip]

Hi George,

According to the data I have, if your car is a very early 1933 model year Nine Sports (the type with the 'helmet' style front wings) registered in late 1932, then the Zenith 26 are probably the original carbs. My '33 was built in June and they changed to Zenith 30's before going to the Solex late in '33 for what was essentially the 1934 model with long front wings and many other detail modifications. Most early cars now have the post-war Solex 30 FAI 'replacement' carbs that require an adapter to fit to the Singer manifold.

While my Zeniths have been reliable in my '33, I am not a fan of the Solex on my '34, much preferring the SU's on my Le Mans SS. Could your carb problems be associated with air or fuel jets being incorrect? If the problem is indeed fuel and not electrical, then it might be when the load shifts from the idle jet to the main jet.

Here in Canada antifreeze is something we have to take seriously with temperatures that can go down to -30C and I use a pre-OAT formula at 50/50 that is "8 metal compatible" so doesn't have any adverse effects on ferrous or non-ferrous metals. Changing the antifreeze within the prescribed time is a good idea as the mixture requires 'inhibitors' to stop corrosion and these fail over time.

As far as oils go, I use Delco 400LE 15/40. This is a diesel engine oil that contains zinc. If the engine is an old one I use a straight 30 with no detergents.

That's just my experience here in Canada anyway.

Stay safe and well all!

[Phillip]

Hi again George,

Here's a period photo of the engine compartment of a 1933 Sports with the Zenith carbs:

Zenith Carbs_Nine Sports_B&W_WEB.jpg (141.49 KiB) Viewed 11020 times

My data shows the Zenith 26-V carbs were used up to around engine number 46534 (Nine Sports parts catalog) and were replaced with the Zenith 30-VEI. My engine is 48889, so the 30's are correct.

Zenith 26- V Specs:

Main jet: 60
Compensator jet: 55
Pilot jet: 60
Needle valve: 2.5
Choke tube: 17
Auto start venturi: 25

Hope that helps!

[jeans_old_man]

Hello again George,
The cheap aftermarket points caused an issue just as you describe. It seems that the drag caused by the strong spring and plastic cam follower kept the advance and retard mechanism fully retarded. Only when the revs built up did the bob weights manage to do their job and advance the timing but this was very hit and miss. With the electronic points (actually a magnet) the advance was much smoother as witnessed using a stoboscope.
Brian

[George]

I appreciate the very detailed response Phillip!
I have a heap of paperwork with mine, some which say its a 1932 and others which say 1933. According to the government website its a 1932 so thats what I go by, so that would explain that the Zenith 26s are original to the car then!

Apparently my engine number is 552274, but the chassis number seems to match up better to your numbers - 45006.

I'm still getting to grips with working on such an old car so this process will probably be a slow and steady one. Once again appreciate everyone's help and comments!

Also realised I haven't posted a photo of the car yet so (Assuming I've done this right) here it is:

* Please excuse the tatty hood - Definitely on the list of jobs!

[Phillip]

Hi George,

Great photos! It's a lovely early Sports and looks just like mine! Congratulations and I hope you enjoy working on her and driving her.

45006 is indeed an early example! Mine car/chassis number is 48454 and engine number 48889, so, although Singers were not 'matching number' cars, the range was quite close in regards to the numbers stamped on parts. Check the casting date on your block, which should have a date some six months earlier than the registration date of the car, so possibly @June 1932.

It would not be uncommon for the engine to have been replaced after so many years, but it may be that the front alloy timing chain cover has been swapped, which has the engine number stamped on it. Sometimes the engine number is also stamped on the small tab cast at the back of the cylinder head. The early front timing chain cover is easy to identify as it has a casting on it to take the fan assembly with a pinch bolt. These often crack. The later type has a steel triangular piece which holds the fan and is fixed to a flat surface on the alloy cover with three nuts. There were a huge number of changes made to the Nine Sports between 1933 and 1934. If you can post some photos of the engine compartment, I am sure we can tell you more.

If you haven't already, I'd suggest contacting the SOC to get a 'Heritage Certificate' which will provide you with the data from the factory record card. This will tell you exactly when your car was sold, where, and to whom. In the UK the date of registration is given as the year of the car. The Nine Sports four seater like you have was introduced in the fall of 1932 as a 1933 model. I have a 1929 Singer Senior saloon which is registered as a 1928 model since it was registered in late 1928. It is certainly a 1929 style car as the body and many other details were changed between 1928 and 1929.

Hope that helps!

Cheers,
Phillip

[Phillip]

Hey George,

Per Brian's posts, I would certainly look at the electrical side of things. As he say's there are a lot of dubious repro parts out there.

Looking at your photos, there is something very interesting with your car: The scuttle has opening vents rather than the three louvres that were standard. I have only ever seen this on a pre-production prototype, photos of which were used in one of the motoring mags when the car was launched. I'll dig through my material and see what I can find. The chassis number is very early!

Interesting!!!!

[George]

Hi Phillip,

As you can see from one of the photos, the car has now (finally) been moved indoors so it will now be much easier and dryer to have a look around the car in detail. I'll definitely investigate under the bonnet and have a look for those stamps. And while I'm at it I'll definitely take some photos of and around the engine.

Thanks for the advice regarding contacting the owners club, I had no idea you could request that information! Would be really interesting to see what comes back!

You have a very keen eye - I never thought anything of those vents. But now you mention it, you're right I can't see any other images of the 9 Sports with the same vent. I notice the Le Mans have the vents though, is that correct?

Thanks for pointing out Brian's comment I had missed that. Appreciate the advice Brian and ill certainly take that into consideration!

[Phillip]

Hi George,

Yes, the factory record card has all the build information on your car; relevant part numbers, original colours, dealership information and first owner. All very useful.

You are correct, the scuttle on the 1935/36/37 cars had the vents, but also the twin humped scuttle, which the 33/34 Nine Sports did not have. That scuttle was carried over into the Singer Roadster of 1939 and then on into the post-war A Series Roadster until late 1949, when the vents were deleted, most likely as a cost saving measure.

Look forward to more detail photos!

Cheers,
Phillip