9 LM inner door hardware

[mikeyr]

So, in my search for door hardware, I have found nothing. I am getting some used external ones from Hardwick's but he has no inner ones. Since I live in S. Calif. the land of sunshine, I likely will never put a top on the car, I can reach over and use the outside handles if needed. But I would rather have it all.

Does anyone have pictures and measurements of all the bits that make up the inner door lock, not the handle although I will need that also down the road (hint, hint) and Hardwick is out of those also. If the inner part is anything like the exterior latch, it should be fairly easy to manufacture, I just need to know what it looks like. I see Hardwick has the inner latch spring, that would be the hardest part to manufacture I expect. So pictures, measurements, etc. appreciated.

[casadecabra]

Hi Mike

Attached are a few pictures of the original door catches from my 1934 Le Mans. They were quite worn, especially where the bolts passed through the flange on the frame, and on the bolts themselves. I welded and filed the bolts, made new frames from stainless steel, machined new rivets and fitted new springs purchased from Dave Hardwick.

The original frames are 14 SWG (0.180”) steel, 3 7/16” x 2 11/16” and the flange is 1 3/16”. You can probably get the other dimensions by scaling my pictures but let me know if you need more information. If you want you can have one of the old frames and the rivets (see last picture) for the cost of the postage.

David B

[mikeyr]

Thanks, I have what the Hardwick's call the exterior lock, one broken one and well worn one. That I need is any information on the interior lock, what it looks like inside, any measurements of the parts since I have to make them. I have no idea what they look like so its difficult. I can guess some details from the routed out part in the door, like basic overall dimension.

This is the one I need help with. I can make it all in Stainless steel and have access to a lathe to make rivets so I just need to have a guess as to what it looks like and some basic measurements, they don't even have to be very accurate, this is a part where plus or minus quite a bit is ok as long as it works. One thing I see, is that instead of a square hole, it appears to have a square shaft sticking out for the inside handle. I was expecting it to have a hole like the exterior one.

[casadecabra]

Sorry Mike, I should have read your post more carefully. I'll remove the 'interior' lock and take some pictures and measurements the next time I visit my car (it's garaged a few miles away).

Cheers
David B

[casadecabra]

Details of the (left hand) interior door lock attached,

The plate thickness is 0.088" which doesn't seem to correspond to any standard imperial sizes, not that it is critical.

The spigot to which the handle is bolted is brass, passes through the two brass washers and the arm and is swaged at the other end. It forms a solid assembly allowing free movement without significant play. Can't see the internal details but I suspect it has a square section to fit square holes in the washers and arm.

Let me know if you need more dimensions or details.

Merry Christmas (Covid notwithstanding).

David B

[mikeyr]

That is absolutely awesome, THANK YOU !!! I have the spring coming from Steve Hardwick, with those dimensions, I bet I can make a few of these.

THANK YOU

[darcy]

A question, why is there a spring on both plates? As the inside plate is simply a reciprocal action ie push/pull of the front plate, relying on that spring? Having two springs would seem to double the pressure?

[mikeyr]

So, I got new interior door handles. They are different than the one (only one) that came with my car, but they are as per the images above posted already.

So, now I have the 2 springs, 2 door handles and I can easily fabricate all the parts required, EXCEPT for the pawl or whatever it is called.

I will have some work to do on that pawl...but I can do it, THANKS everyone. I also have the front latches now instead of the broken parts, I didn't have to make those. Making progress

[Peter McKercher]

Nice looking castings. I assume those are from the SOC.

[mikeyr]

yes they are from the SOC

[casadecabra]

I recently purchased a pair of inner door handles from the SOC. They are nice castings, dimensionally slightly smaller than the original (see picture). I can live with this but but the main problem is that the square hole has been cast at 45° to the original so that when fitted they do not lie at a convenient position for opening the door. Possibly they were designed for another Singer car? I pointed this out to the SOC storeman but have not received a response.

I suppose it would be possible to file additional grooves with a square file but I think my approach may be to bore an oversize hole and hard solder in a piece with a square hole made from a commercial door furniture item.

Any thoughts anyone?

David B

[jeans_old_man]

I've always assumed that the handles pointed forwards and lifted to open (safer than the alternative). That would give you more options but if that doesn't work for you your idea of hard soldering a replacement square seems a good one.

handle2.jpg (59.54 KiB) Viewed 237636 times

[casadecabra]

You're right. The picture of the cockpit in the Le Mans instruction book/repair manual shows this clearly. Thanks for bringing this to my attention.
But even mounted pointing forward the replica handles are not in an ideal position so I will still try to modify them.

David B

[mikeyr]

ok, back on this for now, going to get this finished as I feel I am working on too many parts, lets get one finished.

Going to make the shaft that goes through the plate this weekend, it appears to be brass in the pictures above. Is it really brass ? I would think that is too soft and would wear out quickly.

brass.png (400.81 KiB) Viewed 236903 times

I assume the chrome part is because it will/may be visible inside the car.

My other issue is on the back, it looks like its just peened over and while that is cool, brass is so soft that eventually the thing would turn, if I make it out of steel, I can weld it and it will never come apart, but brass is so much easier to work with on the lathe and I have to mill that square end also.

And I while I have 2 springs from Hardwick, I was thinking of using modern day tension springs that might work better, but I found these Ford springs, the 34 is a perfect fit but only has 2 coils and might not be strong enough (or it might be perfect) and the 36 Ford has 3 coils but a short arm. My goal is to make this reproducible with completely stock parts, except for that shaft that has to be machined.

spring.png (129.87 KiB) Viewed 236904 times

[nth]

Hi Mike
While I wait for internal handle mechanism availability, I have tried using a Mini type wire pull without the door trims. Works perfectly - suggesting that the only spring strength required is to return the handle itself to start position. I suppose that depends on the construction of the parts you are making and maybe brass against steel is less drag. Could braize or silver solder the brass parts together to prevent parting?
Cheers
Neil