Rebuilding Hartfords

[ColinB]

I couldn't find this on a search of the Forum so I would be glad of advice on rebuilding/renovating Hartford dampers. They are fitted to ELA and seem to be fairly unyielding so I think they need some attention.

[david.bryant]

Hi Colin
I have not done this type myself though have these links:

https://forums.aaca.org/topic/223197-ha ... djustment/
http://www.andrehartfordltd.co.uk/main.htm
http://jimbutterworth.co.uk/1andrehartford.jpg

Regards
David

[Phillip]

Hey Colin,

These people do really lovely work and are the only ones who seem to produce the original style 'rolled edge' Hartfords used in the early to mid thirties, as well as many other types:

http://www.vintageandclassicshockabsorb ... 4569744260

I've met them at Beaulieu a few times and bought parts from them. Paul Bouchard, our NASOC President, had a set of Hartfords made for his 1935 LM SS and they look superb! I am sure the folks would be happy to offer advice.

These are actually friction dampers, as opposed to shock absorbers, so may feel firm as a result. The wooden friction discs are not dry actually, but are impregnated with oil under pressure.

Initial setting can be done with the damper off the car, or on it - if space allows - with one arm disconnected. A fishing scale is a good way to set them by locking one arm into a vice then attaching the fishing scale to the other arm and then pulling to see what weight you get before the arm moves. If the car is on a ramp or lift, it may be possible to do the same with one arm on the car and the other loose and attached to the scale. I'm going to guess @19lbs for your Coupe. Once set, you can drive the car and adjust according to your taste based on ride and handling.

The center bushes tend to fail and the silent block rubber bushes go hard and fail also. Disks, both wood and brass also wear. Rust and physical damage can occur and I have seen a few bent ones over the years. Corrosion can seize the pivot bolts in the rubber bushes also.

[ColinB]

Very useful Phillip thanks. Given that ELA has only done around 4,000 miles since Robin T bought her in 1988 and none at all since 1994 they may just need a work out! So I will concentrate on the brakes for the time being and deal with the Hartfords later if necessary.

[mikeyr]

I rebuilt mine with parts I got from the UK, I will have to look and find where I got the parts. I also probably have pictures somewhere that I can post. They are pretty easy to rebuild and really the only reason I needed parts was to make my shocks pretty I glass beaded them and powder coated them, then re-used the wood shims as they were in good shape and put on the new plate with the words/instructions and star pointer. Of course that was a decade ago and my LM is still not on the road, ashamed to say I have not touched it in over 2 years...but the mini is almost done and I promised my son-in-law that it will be finished before Christmas THIS YEAR, so look out, the LM will get some loving soon.

[Peter McKercher]

I'll hold you to that Mike. So you, Bob Tayler and I will get together as the only '34 Le Mans Singers in North America next spring. Oops, forgot about the ex-Peter Lee car. Anyone know where it went?

[ColinB]

Mine look pretty tidy from the outside at least so I will leave them for the time being. Spares are available from Sports and Vintage Motors should I need them.
http://www.sportsandvintage.co.uk/AndreHartford.htm

[Phillip]

Looks like these have been done up, Colin.

Looks like the dial, center spring star and pointer are the later type and the arms are the earlier rolled type.

Interesting how much of a hybrid this car is. As I recall, the Bantam had Luvax dampers and this has Hartfords like the sports cars.

[ColinB]

Yes indeed Phillip - the rears are still Luvax so I suspect the Gibsons put the Hartfords on the front. I quite like the look so I will leave them alone!

[jeans_old_man]

The bracket attaching them to the axle doesn't look right. Normally Hartfords are bolted to a bracket that is clamped between the spring and the axle by the 'U' bolts. The lug on the axle is spare. Presumably, this is where the Luvax was connected.

[ColinB]

I agree Brian. I'm sure they aren't original.

[Phillip]

Hey Colin,

Bantam Coupe Luvax_WEB.jpg (250.32 KiB) Viewed 2897 times

ABOVE: Here's a photo from the Bantam and Coupe handbook showing the front suspension and steering. The handbook refers to the shocks as "Armstrong Hydraulic shock absorbers."

The Gibson's actually followed the design practice used in 1936 on the sports cars fitted with Hartfords. No surprise, I guess, as the '36 Le Mans and Sports were a low-production model based on the Bantam chassis from the fall of 1935. This finally gave the LM the underslung frame and 'fore - aft' steering system it always should have had.

Late Hartford Bracket_1936_WEB.jpg (193.52 KiB) Viewed 2897 times

ABOVE: Here's a close-up of the damper assembly as used on my 1936 LM SS. As you can see, the extension bracket for the lower shock mounting is riveted to the axle eye and the Hartford attaches to that. The Gibsons seem to have bolted yours on, from what I can see.

Late Style Hartford_1936_WEB.jpg (193.14 KiB) Viewed 2897 times

ABOVE: Here's the whole assembly showing the later style Hartford with the 'flat edged' arms, star springs and small pointer.

Early Style Hartford_WEB.jpg (138.45 KiB) Viewed 2897 times

ABOVE: Here's an early Hartford from my 1934 Nine Sports to compare. This has the raised-edge dial, arrow pointer, round-end star spring and rolled edge arms. The lower arm was attached to a bracket sandwiched between the leaf spring and axle spring pad as mentioned before. This system was introduced in the fall of 1933. The 1933 Nine Sports used a tall upper bracket which was bolted to the frame with the front wing bracket and the lower arm actually did attach to the axle spring eye. The Hartford was of a rather flimsy twin disk design that was changed to a stronger multi-disk design for the 1934 model Sports. The huge amount of detail change between 1933 and 1934 showed how much Singer learnt about developing the Nine Sports in just one season.

Hope that helps!

[ColinB]

Thanks Phillip that is all very interesting. I'll take a better picture of my set up tomorrow and post it just to clarify how my car was modified.

[ColinB]

Yes the lower fitting is bolted on to the eye in the front axle. The upper fitting looks to be the same as on your Le Mans using a bolted connection onto the chassis rail.