Help identifying coupe

[ColinB]

I thought I would share the options Steve at EA Seals has offered based on my advice that the head could only stand moderate torque up to around 30 lb ft:

We have 3 different ‘soft faced’ materials now that we could use for your engine

C4509 – steel reinforced Klingersil as used previously – firm – 1.5mm thickness £21.00 each + Carr & VAT
SPAF FSFH – steel reinforced ‘beta’ style 500°C max – med – 1.5mm thickness £16.20 each + Carr & VAT
APX2 – fire retardant high-grade carbon with 2 stainless steel foil layers – med – 1.5mm thickness - this material requires tooling to cut as the surfaces do not respond well to high pressure water-jet cutting £13.75 each + tool £146.00 + Carr & VAT

Needless to say, the APX2 material is the Roll-Royce grade. The beta faced SPAF is used for cylinder head gaskets, but fire rings would normally be applied to the bores to stop flame burn. The C4509 material you know about – so that should perform okay – although you do have 3 holes particularly close to the bores, there should be sufficient wire reinforcement in place to support the flanges there.

I have ordered two of the C4509 option, although I won't take the head off until I have flushed the radiator and ascertained whether its the radiator or the gasket which is causing the problem.

[Peter McKercher]

That sounds like a very good deal Colin. I am not familiar with C4509 material. Is this what Hardwick's have been supplying? Is this the material squeezed between the two copper layers or is there any copper at all?

[ColinB]

Its based on carbon fibre bonded with expanded metal reinforcement Phillip, which means its an homogenous material without the central core that I think can fail in asbestos-free conventional gaskets. Its used in the chemical and steam sectors and is a bit softer than annealed copper so should seal well even with our puny bolt loadings!

[Phillip]

Hi Colin,

It was Peter that had the query, but thanks for the clarification. I seem to recall I bought something like that from Dave Hardwick some years ago. The lack of any compression rings concerned me, so I never used it. It was a silver expanded metal on one side which looked like it was perforated and it was a dark gray, slightly fibrous material on the other side. Is this what yours looks like?

[ColinB]

Sorry Phillip I got confused! The C4509 is as shown in the photo of the gaskets for my Light Six - it is the same on both sides.

[Phillip]

No worries, my friend!

That looks like a very interesting solution!

[ColinB]

I went to Arthur Michell's bus garage today looking for some parts - its my second visit and it till amazes me! I found the parts I was looking for in 10 minutes - a mushroom cover for the air intake of my Solex 26 and a radiator cap for the Light Six. Quite amazing. The place is a treasure trove of interwar Nine parts plus a significant number of buses!

[Phillip]

Wow! That's a lot of serious metal! LOL!

[davida]

Hi Philip

It is a Bantam Coupe that was only built in 1937


Best wishes
David Andreassen

[davida]

Hi Philip

It looks like a Bantam Coupe. They were only built in 1937
The inside shot shows a Le Mans type gear shift which is not correct for the Bantam Coupe which had a three speed gear box with a remote gear shift peculiar to the Coupe model

The dash should be the same as the ordinary Bantam. The vents on the bonnet are correct as they were borrowed from the Super Nine and the radiator mascot should be that from the Super nine.

If it was Throps it might have modification

David A

[davida]

Hi Philip

It looks like a Bantam Coupe. They were only built in 1937
The inside shot shows a Le Mans type gear shift which is not correct for the Bantam Coupe which had a three speed gear box with a remote gear shift peculiar to the Coupe model

The dash should be the same as the ordinary Bantam. The vents on the bonnet are correct as they were borrowed from the Super Nine and the radiator mascot should be that from the Super nine.

If it was Throps it might have modification

David A

[ColinB]

Hello David. It was marketed as a Nine Coupe according to contemporary reviews and was available in 1936 and 1937. This one (now mine) was restored in about 1975 by the Gibsons who found her in a partially collapsed shed according to John Gibson. The 1936 photos in the reviews don't show a mascot and I have removed the rather strange figure that adorned her when I bought her. From holes in the rad surround she did have a mascot fitted but I have yet to find one (perhaps the mascot was a 1937 addition to try and boost sales).

Because of the internal configuration I doubt if a standard Bantam shift would fit in and would be very hard to reach from the driver's seat and I have no idea what the remote control looks like. So the Le Mans shift seems the right choice at the moment, although this is a 3 speed arrangement and the gearbox is definitely Bantam with the support at the rear. I am in touch with David Priestner who has the other one which I am told is very original so I'll ask him what gear shift arrangement is in his car. I'm always keen to learn more as my ambition is to retain as original a car as possible. David is a working farmer so will not be able to answer until the mad autumn rush is over! He did though send me a picture of the mascot when I asked him some time ago. If anyone has a spare I would happily take it off their hands!

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[ColinB]

Is this the source of my overheating issue? There is a home made washer in the spigot coming off the head which is obviously providing an absolute constriction in the cooling system. I can't imagine this is a normal part although I'll have a look through the Hardwick catalogue to see if they do a replacement. I can only imagine this is a crude attempt to overcome an engine running too cold (John Griffiths says his eleven runs very cool even in warm weather) but is likely to have introduced a far bigger problem. Unless someone tells me otherwise I'll remove this and replace it with a fully open rubber washer.

I have washed through the radiator with a hose by the way and although a bit of rubbish came out it was generally clear.

[jeans_old_man]

That certainly won't help! Thermo syphon doesn't need a restriction since there is no circulation until the engine gets hot. My '35 head has the alloy casting bolted on the side which has four 1" holes to let the water through. I would try the 'open' gasket. Running cool is the least of your problems.

I am still waiting for the solid copper gaskets to arrive. I did try a 'soft' gasket once - home made from graphite material that was reinforced with wire mesh (funds were tight back then). It didn't get me round the block before it let go in a big way! Your material sounds a lot more substantial.

[ColinB]

Yes Brian I agree: it has gone and the system is back together without any blockages. As its wet here and I haven't finished assembling the floor I haven't taken her out on the road yet but circulation seems much better on warming her up on the drive. If this hasn't solved the problem it will have to be the gasket but I have no sign of water in the oil so I am hoping I have found the answer. If she behaves I'll leave the gasket alone and keep the C4509 gaskets as spares.

I have had the grey C4509 material in the Light Six for quite a while and it holds excellent compression with no sign of any fluids getting mixed up. Looking on line it seems to be a very robust material used in high pressure industrial systems. Now Steve has the CAD file anyone can get a gasket from him. Might be worth a try?