"New" '34 LeMans

[dgabier]

As promised, here are more pics of the '34 LeMans. It is a seemingly quite complete car, so if there are any specific photos needed by those of you trying to recreate pieces, just ask. Again, the photos showing a red interior were taken in the 70's. Enjoy!

[dgabier]

Current photos:

[dgabier]

One more.

[dgabier]

IMG_20110122_134152.jpg (28.81 KiB) Viewed 11913 times

I checked again, and I had the numbers listed correctly as follows:

Inner aspect, Left front spring hanger on the tip of the front dumb iron: 10438/3
Right front spring hanger: 10438A/3
Left front axle: 61463 and below that, first digit is hourglass-like symbol followed by 9090X3
Right front axle: appears to be same stamp as left, but hard to read.
Above dipstick on engine block: 6433
Just behind generator pulley: NO 57948
Back of generator: 6538
Gear Box: 12912 X1
Rear axle: 62557

BTW, I checked and Peter is correct, there is evidence that the doors were hinged in the back! I never noticed that before. The switch must have been made before my father purchased it.

[Peter McKercher]

Very cool Dan. You have a really early example of a Le Mans. Perhaps the doors were modified to get it licensed in the american market or whoever brought it over just felt they were unsafe.

The number you are looking at is a casting number, not the serial number and you are looking at the side of the dumb iron, not the top. You are probably also looking at the passenger side. Look at the top of the dumb iron on the driver's side and you should see a relatively faint imprint (not raised) of the number. It may be obscured by paint or rust. Try sanding it if it is not visible. See below for what it should look like.

[mikeyr]

yup, like Peter says its the number on top you are looking for. In my case the Calif. DMV gave me a hard time since that part can technically be removed they eventually allowed it but its not quite legal if the part can be removed.

[Peter McKercher]

Dan
FYI, there are only about six Type 1 Le Mans cars left, at least two of which have had their doors rehung.

This is one of them below recently placed for sale by a dealer for £39000 at the NEC show in the UK.

[dgabier]

The car number reveals itself after sanding through lots of paint. A bit of a surprise being that the number is 60053.

1295816686599.jpg (12.13 KiB) Viewed 11837 times

[Peter McKercher]

Well isn't that interesting. So close and yet so far. It could be that the license plate was swapped from another le mans, although the serial numbers are so close that seems like a stretch. Maybe a clerical error...

[Phillip]

Hey Dan,

Sorry for the delay in following up. I have been traveling for business, an increasing problem that gets in the way of my hobby!!

This car is certainly an interesting one!

First off, I’d like to thank Martyn Wray of the Singer owner’s Club in the UK for sending on some of the details of your car to both Peter and myself and which Peter posted.

In the interests of giving credit where due, Martyn’s full account reads as:

“First came into the club in 1966 owned by a G Phillips of Cheam, Surrey. Shown as chassis 60057, so should be a type 1 with suicide doors. Originally sold to an E Toft of Derby (ANU is a Derby plate) and an E Toft entered the May 1934 RSAC Scottish Rally although was a Non Starter. Nothing else known about him but it would be unusual to enter a fairly major event without some prior competition history.”

Now, according to the factory records supplied to me by Bob Dibben of the SOC, the details of the two possible chassis numbers for your car make very interesting reading.

Chassis 60053 lists as:

Engine 52324 Front axle 50286 Rear axle: 50388
Colours: black with brown upholstery.
Sold by: Mason’s Garage, Chichester. Delivered 2-11-33 to H. A. Mason, Chichester.

Chassis 60057 lists as:

Engine: 54889 Front axle: 61687 Rear axle: 61671.
Colours: Black & Red.
Sold by: G. Batty & Sons, Sheffield Delivered: 16-4-34 C. E Toft, Derby.

Dan, the numbers you quoted were:

Engine numbers: Above dipstick on engine block: 6-4-33 ( this is the casting date of the block )
Just behind generator pulley: NO 57948 (This is probably the engine number, but I must note that the front timing covers can be swapped from engine to engine and so, the engine number along with it. A casting date on the block of about 6 months earlier than the delivery date of the car will indicate a likely chance that the car still has the original engine.)
Front Axle: 61463 Rear axle: 62557

It certainly seems likely that ANU 965 was the original registration number for 60057 as the time-frame for registration and the issuing of a 1934 registration from Derby County, which was also the home of C.E. Toft, would add up.

From the chassis number range, we know that both 60053 and 60057 are Type 1 cars with suicide doors. 60053 is noted by Bob as being the only Type 1 he knows for certain was listed as having been ‘broken up’. A mystery indeed. Most Type 1’s were modified to front hinge doors due to a problem with scuttle flexing. The doors had a habit of popping open! I believe the factory modified a number of them, perhaps on issues of liability.

So, we have a chassis number of a car that was known to have been broken up and with engine and axle numbers that don’t match the factory record card for that chassis. It is quite possible that the car was rebuilt using spares from others, but we don’t yet know the specifics of why or how 60053 was broken up. Wear and tear or accident? It was not uncommon for cars to be scrapped for minor issues when they had reached ‘old banger’ status and the introduction of MOT testing in the 60’s took many more off the roads and into breaker’s yards. This would not be the first I have come across that was reborn from the remains of two or three cars. It’s interesting, for example, to see that your car has the pressed steel valve cover and oil pan, when both should be cast aluminum. You’d need to drop the oil pan to see if you have the proper counterbalanced Le Mans crank or if it is the standard ‘bent wire’ type used in the Sports 4 seater models.

I am presently following up other leads to cross-reference the registration number with the chassis number, but I suspect it will tell us that 60057 was indeed ANU- 965. 60053’s registration number might be harder to ascertain, but time will tell!

In regards to the Type 1 car recently auctioned and mentioned by Peter, the full story of this car and the details mentioned about Type 1’s, can be seen at:

http://www.historics.co.uk/previous-auc ... -mans.aspx

Here’s another very nicely restored Type 1 that I photographed at the 40th Singer National Day…

SOC_40th Nat Day_Type 1 LM_1.jpg (151.38 KiB) Viewed 11674 times

SOC_40th Nat Day_Type 1 LM_2.jpg (142.39 KiB) Viewed 11675 times

This is a fascinating story, Dan, and we look forward to assisting you with the restoration as required.

Cheers,
Phillip

[Phillip]

Hey Dan,

A bit more info on your car...

Many of the old County records were destroyed or lost, but some have still survived. After some research in this area the following has come to light:

ANU 965 passed from an owner in Buckinghamshire to one in Greater London in March 1966.

The vehicle file was sent away to the 'dead storage' archive in March 1972 which would either indicate that it had been exported within the previous twelve months or that it was last licensed about 1969.

No other actual vehicle details are recorded, so it is unclear if this is 60053 or 60057 at this point. There doesn't seem to be any information confirming a transfer of the plate to another vehicle, or indication that 60053 was scrapped, but that is simply because there is no supporting evidence either way.

The ANU series was issued between January and May 1934 and as 965 is nearly at the end, it is likely that the first licensing date would be around April 1934.

More as it comes to light!

Cheers,
Phillip

[mikeyr]

I am voting for 60053 because that "looks" like a factory rivet holding the spring eye on.

[Peter McKercher]

From a U.S. registration perspective, it will probably be required to go with 60053 and I'm assuming the chassis proper is 60053, but not any of the drive train or axles. They seem to have come from something else. The body is another matter. From a British registration perspective (and club records), it might be less confusing to go with 60057 because that is the number associated with the car and its British registration plate (ANU 965) as it sits today. There is no Body Number Plate so it's impossible to say whether it is the body from 60057 or not. It might be, it might not be. It begs the question of why was it broken in the first place. Was the chassis irreparable or was the body. If neither why did the car develop a split personality.

[Phillip]

Mike's vote is no doubt the best bet. For US registration, the car is for all intents and purposes 60053 and was no doubt imported as such @ 1970. The stamped chassis number physically confirms this and Dave Hardwick would no doubt be OK with issuing a maker's plate based on that. If the bonnet spine number can be found, then a body number can at least be used based on that. Regarding State registration, I assume the car was registered when it was imported and has been legal in at least one State, so whatever numbers were assigned to it then define its identity now.

Research to date and photographic evidence seem to suggest that the current wearer of ANU is a composite. From a historical perspective, there must be an interesting story behind how 60053 was written off and reborn and how 60057 lost its registration number to 60053. Wither 60057 now and why the registration transfer to a car with chassis numbers so close together? They were clearly distinct and separate when new.

Great stuff for a Registrar to dig his teeth into! Still one or two avenues to explore.

[dgabier]

Looking for new glass headlamp lenses for the '34 LM. Any suggestions?

Thanks,
Dan