Moss Rear Axles for 4AD

[Mark Thompson]

I broke my rear axle this past weekend. I am supposed to be showing the car in a concours in three weeks. Maybe not! Does anyone have a source for new or used Moss axles? Is the Moss differential made by Moss Motors? If so, does anyone know of a part number for either the Moss differential of the rear axles? Are the right and left rear axles the same length. Mine appear to be, but one possible source I found says he has two different lengths. The literature that I have says that they are interchangeable. Can anyone confirm this? Somewhere I read a that the single carburetor and twin carburetor models used A different differential? Would that be a reference to the Salisbury differential or did they use two different Moss differentials?
I know this is alot of questions, but I need an axle quickly and am interested in any source or option.

Thanks,
Mark Thompson, 1952 4AD

[indian301]

Mark,
I do not have a short term solution to your problem. A long term solution is to send your axles to Moser Engineering and have them make you new axles. You will never have a problem with them again. I would guess it would be 3-4 weeks turn around and probably $400-500. They made the axles for my Singer, but I am using a common 8" Ford rear. I do not have their number, I am at work, but if your Google it I am sure you can find it.

Dave

[mikeyr]

The Moss axle was NOT made by Moss Motors and they don't have parts sorry.

The Salsbury axle and Moss axles were the 2 axles on the 4AD. The Salsbury was on the twin-carbs because it is a stronger axle and the Moss on the single carb cars. I do have the part numbers at home along with a list of other cars that also used that axle but they are just as rare as Singer's and I also would look into getting axles made.

I had the axles on my 4AD made back in the late 1970's and I remember that the guy who made them saying "he would guarantee my axles for life no matter how big a V-8 I put in the car". I never did break my axles although I also stayed with the stock motor. If you are in a really big hurry to get back on the road for this show, you can have the axle welded but WARNING that is a temporary fix at best regardless of what the welder will say, do NOT trust those axles long term. The axles metallurgy is just not a good welding candidate. Both my original axles were welded and they were crooked when I purchased the car in 1974 so during the restoration I had new ones made but the previous owner had driven the car many thousands of miles with broken/welded/crooked axle shafts.

For the Moss axle both sides are identical, for the Salsbury they are left and right axle shafts. I may (most likely not) have a axle shaft, I have a large pile of parts but I don't remember any axles in there last time I crawled around that pile.

[indian301]

I understand about keeping things original, but safety, reliability, and driveability are another thing. I am not advocating changing to a different rear end. Most of you have spent thousands of dollars not to mention hundreds of hours restoring your cars. Do you really want to have to fix body damage or possibly wreck your car? This is the second incident that I have read about involving a broken axle in lesss than 1 year. Take the hint from others experience and get axles made. The extra money you will spend having this done will save you much more in the end.

Dave

[Mark Thompson]

I am curious. I don't know alot about differentials, but isn't the right axle the "pulling" axle and subject to alot more torque. I am thinking about having axles made if I can find a reasonable source. I have two Singers a 1952 4AD and a 1953 4ADT. They both have Moss rear ends. Rather than having 4 axles made, would it make sense to have two axles made and use them on the right side? From the previous discussions, I am concerned about the Moss rear end in my twin carb Singer. It is under restoration and I haven't road tested it yet but it sounds like I could be in for more axle trouble. Any thoughts? Has anyone ever broken a left axle?

Mark Thompson

[ggvette]

I agree with the previous post regarding having axles made. Seems these axles are prone to breaking.
Is there an easy way to determine Moss from Salsbury with the rear end in the car...
I have a 53 4ADT and would be interrested in having a set made.

[mikeyr]

I have not heard of the right side being under more stress than the left, on my 4AD both axles had been broken and welded when I purchased it, but it could be they were both on the right at the time of being broken. I would have thought that the differential would equal out the torque to both sides.

The Salsbury axle has a very large nut in the center and the Moss has no nut, just a small grease fitting, you just take the hubcap off and you will see the difference. I may be able to come up with pics of a Salsbury, I have lots of the Moss axle.

These axles are the weakpoint in the 4AD which is the Honda of the Singer world. Get new ones and never worry again. I poked around last night and found 2 welded ones in my pile of parts but no unbroken ones.

[indian301]

For those of you who have never seen the inside of of rear differential or just do not understand how it works. This is a great site.

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/differential2.htm


Dave

***** Edited by Mikeyr to fix link ****

[mikeyr]

And if you have never seen the inside of a Singer rear axle http://new.singercars.com/restoration/rearaxle/

[Mark Thompson]

Well, I decided to have replacement axles made. I spec'd the axle to Moser Engineering and they replied that they don't have any axle stock small enough for my project! They also didn't know of another source. Does anyone know where I can get an axle made? I have the measurements and am willing to send a broken axle for a sample to get a quote. If anyone else is interested, I am willing to do the legwork to get a quote on multiple axles. I will need four.

Mark

[Mark Thompson]

I've contacted about ten axle/machine shops around the country and the only one that would even quote me is Dutchman's Motor Sports in Oregon. $1000 for 1 pair. $915/pr. for two pair and $815/pr. for four pair. If anyone is interested, I am planning on ordering two pair, so that gets the price to $915/pr. If we order two more pair the price will drop another $100. If interested let me know by Monday. I will be sending my broken axle and bearing housing to them, so we get a close match.

Mark Thompson

[Mark Thompson]

UPDATE!
I received my new axles just after Thanksgiving. They were built to original specs but without the grease channel & fitting and without the threads to retain the bearing assembly. Also, I provided the 7/16"BSF studs & jamnuts. I was able to install the grease fittings and channels myself (with the help of carbide drill bits at $15 each for 1/8" bits). They provided interference fit lock rings that are pressed on to retain the bearing assemblies. The axles cost $468 each. They are installed and seem to be working well. After a reasonable trial period, I may be willing to part with a couple of my original axles if someone is needing them (probably about $200 each). However, I would urge anyone to make the larger investment in new axles to prevent having a broken axle on the run. I used Dutchman Motorsports in Portland OR. Contact Derek Brandt if interested at http://www.dutchmanms.com.

Mark Thompson