brake question
- mikeyr
- Site Admin
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brake question
working on the brakes for my LM. The brake shoes have had lead poured into parts of the casting. I initially thought it was JB-Weld a epoxy putty and assumed the shoes were cracked but nope, they seem fine. The lead was not shaped and installed, it was melted and poured into the casting, I know that because its melted into the threads of the bolt and a perfect fit to all the various shapes.
Why would anyone do this kind of thing ? or is there a valid reason that I have not heard of ? My only thought it was added as dampening weight to prevent chatter or squeaking, but really seems odd. If there is a valid reason, then I will re-pour it in as one shoe is missing half that the other shoe has, so easier to melt some lead and re-pour.
Why would anyone do this kind of thing ? or is there a valid reason that I have not heard of ? My only thought it was added as dampening weight to prevent chatter or squeaking, but really seems odd. If there is a valid reason, then I will re-pour it in as one shoe is missing half that the other shoe has, so easier to melt some lead and re-pour.
Mike Rambour. Site Administrator
1953 Singer 4ADT (sold), 1934 Singer 9 Le Mans, 1934 Singer 1 1/2 4-Seater Sports (sold), 2009 BMW K1300GT
1953 Singer 4ADT (sold), 1934 Singer 9 Le Mans, 1934 Singer 1 1/2 4-Seater Sports (sold), 2009 BMW K1300GT
- jeans_old_man
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- First Name: Brian
- Location: Cheshire
Re: brake question
I have never heard of that before. It was probably done in the mistaken believe that the hollows in the shoes form trumpets that cause the squeel. In fact it is the steel drums that squeel. A band around the circumference is one solution. When it happened to me I just changed the brake linings with good results.
- Peter McKercher
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Re: brake question
I've seen a lot of Singer brake shoes and never encountered this. For squeaking, as Brian says, a band around the drum does the trick. Mine squeaked like crazy when cold until I added bands that I found on a spare set of drums.
Peter McKercher
Vice President - NASOC
Pre war Singer Specialist and Collector
Automotive Historian
Author of "Racing Roadsters"
Vice President - NASOC
Pre war Singer Specialist and Collector
Automotive Historian
Author of "Racing Roadsters"
Re: brake question
Hi Peter
Something I've never seen before and I've been messing with cars for well over 50 years! It's an obvious (when you know) solution. Does anyone still make them?
What is the material in contact with the drum??
Might have to commission some as my nine howls at time!
Cheers
Neil
Something I've never seen before and I've been messing with cars for well over 50 years! It's an obvious (when you know) solution. Does anyone still make them?
What is the material in contact with the drum??
Might have to commission some as my nine howls at time!
Cheers
Neil
- Peter McKercher
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Re: brake question
I've had a couple of spare sets of drums kicking around for years and they both had different versions of the same thing. I didn't clue in until I took the drums from my Le Mans to a machine shop to have a mil or two shaved off where they were rubbing on the backing plate. The machinist put a large rubber band around them to keep them from squealing as he milled them.
I removed one set of bands from the spare drums which used asbestos as the padding, cleaned them up and cut some strips of hydro silica gasket material to replace the asbestos.
I removed one set of bands from the spare drums which used asbestos as the padding, cleaned them up and cut some strips of hydro silica gasket material to replace the asbestos.
Peter McKercher
Vice President - NASOC
Pre war Singer Specialist and Collector
Automotive Historian
Author of "Racing Roadsters"
Vice President - NASOC
Pre war Singer Specialist and Collector
Automotive Historian
Author of "Racing Roadsters"
Re: brake question
Thanks Peter
Funily enough I just shimmed one drum out 25 thou to stop rubbing last week!
I'll try a pair of jubilee bands and gasketing.
Cheers
Neil
Funily enough I just shimmed one drum out 25 thou to stop rubbing last week!
I'll try a pair of jubilee bands and gasketing.
Cheers
Neil
- mikeyr
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Re: brake question
So I took out all the lead on the 4 brake shoes, only the rear shoes had lead in them. Glass beaded them and I see no damage at all, I was afraid that was a crack repair but nope it does not appear to be. Going to powder coat them later this week when I do a bunch of parts and then rivet on the new pad. Never done that before, thinking I should buy a riveting jig, they are only $35 but since you have to hammer the rivets anyway, can't I just use a punch ? Luckily I am installing finned brake drums so that should take care of any squeaks, squeals and other noises as they won't vibrate like regular drums, yeah, they can still be noisy but less likely.
Next is steering gear and that takes care of all the major sub-assemblies. By the time winter shows up (hey we do get 2 sometimes even 3 days of rain in So. Calif.) and it cools down to mid-50's F (low 10's C) I can be in the garage assembling.
Next is steering gear and that takes care of all the major sub-assemblies. By the time winter shows up (hey we do get 2 sometimes even 3 days of rain in So. Calif.) and it cools down to mid-50's F (low 10's C) I can be in the garage assembling.
Mike Rambour. Site Administrator
1953 Singer 4ADT (sold), 1934 Singer 9 Le Mans, 1934 Singer 1 1/2 4-Seater Sports (sold), 2009 BMW K1300GT
1953 Singer 4ADT (sold), 1934 Singer 9 Le Mans, 1934 Singer 1 1/2 4-Seater Sports (sold), 2009 BMW K1300GT
- Peter McKercher
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- First Name: Peter
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Re: brake question
Good to see you're finally getting the lead out on your restoration.
Peter McKercher
Vice President - NASOC
Pre war Singer Specialist and Collector
Automotive Historian
Author of "Racing Roadsters"
Vice President - NASOC
Pre war Singer Specialist and Collector
Automotive Historian
Author of "Racing Roadsters"
- mikeyr
- Site Admin
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Re: brake question
nice soft lead too, good to make bullets for black powder toys.
Getting all the items off the wife's honey do list but also working on car.
Getting all the items off the wife's honey do list but also working on car.
Mike Rambour. Site Administrator
1953 Singer 4ADT (sold), 1934 Singer 9 Le Mans, 1934 Singer 1 1/2 4-Seater Sports (sold), 2009 BMW K1300GT
1953 Singer 4ADT (sold), 1934 Singer 9 Le Mans, 1934 Singer 1 1/2 4-Seater Sports (sold), 2009 BMW K1300GT
Re: brake question
Just to assure you...the finned drums are a huge improvement to the brakes ...and no squeaks or squeals in either direction of rotation!!
Bill
Bill
- mikeyr
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Re: brake question
Ok, so I took all the lead pieces off of all the parts, no cracks or obvious damage, no idea why it was put on.
But the brake spring stud, has a nut on the backside and the lead gave the nut a nice place to sit. The nut interferes with the casting and won't go all the way down. Was there something there to allow the nut to tighten, something like a short piece of steel spacer ? or what ? I have 2 options, I can mill out some space for the nut, but I don't like that idea. Or chuck up some steel rod in the lathe and make something about 1/2" long to allow the nut to tighten up. I looked around the Hardwick site, no pics or drawings to help me.
Also, it looks like at one time someone experimented with drilling new rivet locations, not sure why, but there are extra holes for rivets. At least my pads fit some existing holes.
But the brake spring stud, has a nut on the backside and the lead gave the nut a nice place to sit. The nut interferes with the casting and won't go all the way down. Was there something there to allow the nut to tighten, something like a short piece of steel spacer ? or what ? I have 2 options, I can mill out some space for the nut, but I don't like that idea. Or chuck up some steel rod in the lathe and make something about 1/2" long to allow the nut to tighten up. I looked around the Hardwick site, no pics or drawings to help me.
Also, it looks like at one time someone experimented with drilling new rivet locations, not sure why, but there are extra holes for rivets. At least my pads fit some existing holes.
Mike Rambour. Site Administrator
1953 Singer 4ADT (sold), 1934 Singer 9 Le Mans, 1934 Singer 1 1/2 4-Seater Sports (sold), 2009 BMW K1300GT
1953 Singer 4ADT (sold), 1934 Singer 9 Le Mans, 1934 Singer 1 1/2 4-Seater Sports (sold), 2009 BMW K1300GT
- Peter McKercher
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- Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2005 4:26 am
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Re: brake question
Perhaps the nut has been replaced with a larger one. It should fit within the recess.
Peter McKercher
Vice President - NASOC
Pre war Singer Specialist and Collector
Automotive Historian
Author of "Racing Roadsters"
Vice President - NASOC
Pre war Singer Specialist and Collector
Automotive Historian
Author of "Racing Roadsters"
- mikeyr
- Site Admin
- Posts: 1347
- Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2005 10:20 am
- First Name: Mike
- Location: S. Calif.
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Re: brake question
If it was, it was done on all 4
Thanks for the pics I am on right track
Good idea though I will find a smaller diameter nut
Ok WTF STEEL RIVETS to hold the brake pad to the shoe ?
One of my front wheel brakes (don’t know left or right and it does not matter now) used steel rivets. No wonder that drum was destroyed when the pad got worn. The others were brass. This car fights me every step because of course they drilled the holes oversized for the steel rivets.
I will fix it but geez
Thanks for the pics I am on right track
Good idea though I will find a smaller diameter nut
Ok WTF STEEL RIVETS to hold the brake pad to the shoe ?
One of my front wheel brakes (don’t know left or right and it does not matter now) used steel rivets. No wonder that drum was destroyed when the pad got worn. The others were brass. This car fights me every step because of course they drilled the holes oversized for the steel rivets.
I will fix it but geez
Mike Rambour. Site Administrator
1953 Singer 4ADT (sold), 1934 Singer 9 Le Mans, 1934 Singer 1 1/2 4-Seater Sports (sold), 2009 BMW K1300GT
1953 Singer 4ADT (sold), 1934 Singer 9 Le Mans, 1934 Singer 1 1/2 4-Seater Sports (sold), 2009 BMW K1300GT
- Peter McKercher
- Posts: 1074
- Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2005 4:26 am
- First Name: Peter
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Re: brake question
Mine fought me to the last nut. The only thing that went without a hitch was the gas line. From the petrol tank tap to all the unions, nothing leaked first try.
Peter McKercher
Vice President - NASOC
Pre war Singer Specialist and Collector
Automotive Historian
Author of "Racing Roadsters"
Vice President - NASOC
Pre war Singer Specialist and Collector
Automotive Historian
Author of "Racing Roadsters"
- jeans_old_man
- Posts: 411
- Joined: Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:47 pm
- First Name: Brian
- Location: Cheshire
Re: brake question
I am lucky to have a local firm who specialise in relining brakes and clutches - Saftek at Cleckheaton, West Yorkshire. They don't use rivets but bond the linings to the shoes: