Electronic Ignition for 4AD ?

The 4A, 4AB, 4AC, 4AD cars, including the SM 1500 Roadster and SMX
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Mark Thompson
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Electronic Ignition for 4AD ?

Post by Mark Thompson »

Has anyone looked at or tried an electronic ignition replacement in a 4AD? I am only getting about a year out of the condenser on mine. Whenever I drive any distance in hot weather my condenser acts up. I'm wondering if the electronic ignition would be a cure for this. Any thoughts or comments?

Mark Thompson
Ron
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Re: Electronic Ignition for 4AD ?

Post by Ron »

Hi Mark, i used this one http://yuyao90.en.made-in-china.com/pro ... type-.html and connect the vacuum with the exhaust manifold
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Mark Thompson
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Re: Electronic Ignition for 4AD ?

Post by Mark Thompson »

I was thinking about using one of the pertronix type kits that replaces the condenser & points with an electronic module, but uses the existing distributor.

Mark
indian301
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Re: Electronic Ignition for 4AD ?

Post by indian301 »

Mark,

You cannot buy a decent condenser anymore. I converted my Sunbeam over to Pertronix (change 3 condensers in less than 6 months, AZ heat?) and have been extremely happy with results. I would think if you crossed the distributor numbers over, the Lucas number would match another car and be readily available.

Dave V-6 4AD
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Re: Electronic Ignition for 4AD ?

Post by c5performance »

Mark Thompson wrote:Has anyone looked at or tried an electronic ignition replacement in a 4AD? I am only getting about a year out of the condenser on mine. Whenever I drive any distance in hot weather my condenser acts up. I'm wondering if the electronic ignition would be a cure for this. Any thoughts or comments?

Mark Thompson
Hello everyone! Funny you should ask about ignitions. I just spoke with Mike Rambour about our new ignition kit. He was kind enough to "enlighten" me on a few technical aspects of the Singer cars.

Hello everyone,
My name is Paul Crowe. Last year i started a company that uses a patented "light beam" ignition system. This eliminates issues with Hall Effect triggers (magnets) and we have the only true multiple spark ignition in the world. We started with motorcycles and just last week have moved into full production of car/truck/marine kits.

I contacted Mike to see if he could help me create an ignition for Singer vehicles. We typically can design and manufacture kits in just a few weeks...heck, i've done it in days already! We had no idea you guys might be interested in purchasing one until Mike told me via phone tonight.

Here is what i ask of you:

look at our technology and pay attention to the fact we have NO external electronic hardware. Everything is hidden. http://www.c5ignitions.com
Find someone who can send us a distributor to measure up for our kit.
Find just a few people who want one. We can create and sell a kit if I can get just a few sales.
Our parts are made in the USA. The electronics are created in Iowa and we do all machining in Wisconsin. (no offense China but you already own too much of the USA)

http://www.c5ignitions.com
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Mark Thompson
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Re: Electronic Ignition for 4AD ?

Post by Mark Thompson »

I would definitely be interested, but I have some questions. The 4AD and 4ADT use different distributors, so I am guessing they would require diferent modules. Also, we would like to maintain our vintage look. Your wesite says that the kit includes the module, coil & wires. Would these all look like vintage Lucas parts? I know that the module would not be visible, but the coil and wires definitely are. Are the modules compatible with Lucas coils and wires? What would the approximate cost be? If these concerns are satisfied, I would be interested in pursuing this project.

Thanks,
Mark Thompson
c5performance
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Re: Electronic Ignition for 4AD ?

Post by c5performance »

There are several ways we might build this system. Your input would be important to us.
If the points plate is the same diameter between the two cars, it wont matter, and we can probably use the same exact setup for each.

On many distributors we use a motorcycle module and retain the stock distributor top. You of course can use the wires to keep it appearing stock, but they would be just for looks. We use coil packs that would be located out of sight. Another option (we use for American cars) is to manufacture a new distributor and use our automotive top, which has NO sparkplug leads coming from it. The look is not stock, but it cleans up the engine compartment.

We have the ability to create very accurate and specific timing curves, adjust rev limiters to your liking, and we can make small quantity runs.
You must use our coils and plug wires or the electronics would be damaged by EMI waves. We do have flexible cloth coverings to keep the look close to stock.
Our new Moto Guzzi project simply uses a spacer to mount the electronics inside the stock distributor.

Feel free to call any time 920 810 *** 0946. Thats my cell phone.
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mikeyr
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Re: Electronic Ignition for 4AD ?

Post by mikeyr »

excuse me for barging in here... What Mark is saying is that the 4AD and 4ADT dizzies have different housings because the "T" version has vacuum advance so the housings are different if you are trying to keep "stock" look. By the way that vacuum advance would no longer be needed with this setup. My 4ADT had no vacuum advance for the 35 years I owned, it ran fine so I never bothered finding a new dizzy for it but this system takes care of all that. I am going to talk to them again about getting one in my LM (with Spridget motor).
Mike Rambour. Site Administrator
1953 Singer 4ADT (sold), 1934 Singer 9 Le Mans, 1934 Singer 1 1/2 4-Seater Sports (sold), 2009 BMW K1300GT
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Mark Thompson
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Re: Electronic Ignition for 4AD ?

Post by Mark Thompson »

We need to get some idea about the cost. I realize it would depend on quantity. Can you give us an idea what it would cost for 1, 6, 12 or more? Also, it would be helpful to see a picture of what the wires and spark plug connectors could look like and a picture and dimensions for the coil. This information is essential to generate interest for multiple users in our organization.

Mark Thompson
c5performance
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Re: Electronic Ignition for 4AD ?

Post by c5performance »

I will try to answer as best i can. If your distributor inside diameter is at least 2.7", then we can use a motorcycle module and quite possibly your stock distributor will be unchanged on the outside (appearance). You will no longer need to have vacuum advance installed, and you will not need sparkplug leads, but for visual reasons you can keep the wires on, and they just wont be used for anything.

If the diameter is less than that, we'll have to install a spacer on top, or create a new distributor to protect our ignition.

Obviously this will greatly change the retail price. I believe our kit would retail for $400-450 if we can hide things inside. This price would include everything you need: ignition, coil, sparkplug leads and boots, and all spacers, etc...needed to install.

You cannot use a stock coil with our ignition, they just are not good enough to use and won't multiple spark, so we sell only complete kits.
If you think this is something of interest, we can make one kit for someone to try, and go from there. If not, no harm done. You keep using points and condensers and we move to another project.

I will try posting a photo of the Moto Guzzi kit, since that would be similar to what you guys want...a stock looking setup that gives your car "modern" reliability and ease of starting.
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c5performance
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Re: Electronic Ignition for 4AD ?

Post by c5performance »

I could only figure out how to post one picture, so if you follow the link and scroll to the bottom of the page, you'll see some of our recent projects. It will help you better understand what some of our solutions could be.

http://www.c5ignitions.com/c5-technology.html

I will try downloading more photos. Most of our development pictures are on my smart phone. Have a great weekend everyone.
c5performance
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Re: Electronic Ignition for 4AD ?

Post by c5performance »

This is the coil we'd probably use. It runs a 4 cylinder engine. If you have a 6 cylinder we'd use three of our DF coils. They are small and easy to install.
You asked about quantity and my plans would be to offer these to all the vehicle owners who have something using that distributor (i was told Land Rover, Sprite, Midget, and TR2)

That would greatly reduce the cost of the kit. The more we make, the less it costs everyone, including us.
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Mark Thompson
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Re: Electronic Ignition for 4AD ?

Post by Mark Thompson »

I am not clear on how the spark plugs actually fire. It looks to me like you connect spark plug wires from the coil directly to the sparkplugs. Your distributor shows a modified cap with no spark plug wires connected to it. Will your module work with a stock distributor cap (without rotor) installed? Wouldn't the stock wires be redundant and how do they connect to the same spark plugs as your system?

Mark Thompson
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Mark Thompson
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Re: Electronic Ignition for 4AD ?

Post by Mark Thompson »

The 4AD distributor appears to be 2 5/8" ID (2.625).
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Re: Electronic Ignition for 4AD ?

Post by c5performance »

Sorry for delay. I dont get email notifications when a reply is posted.

Our ignition module would fit inside the distributor body. One set of leads run to the coils. ALL sparkplug wires begin at the coil pack and end at the engine (just like a motorcycle).

I was just trying to explain that if you are not comfortable having your distributor cap sitting there with no plug wires coming out, your option would be to run "fake" wires from it.

The smallest diameter ignition we currently make is 2.7", so we'd either have to wait for our new "M" series to be completed, or mount it on top with a spacer...just like the Moto Guzzi picture i posted previous.

The coil pack can be mounted almost anywhere, so you could leave your stock coil sitting there, but why not clean up the engine bay a little bit? Nothing is permanent so going back to the stock ignition in the future would not be a problem. I really like cars where everything is removed and we only have our system in place. The cars start and run so much better you will forget about our ignition and just enjoy the car as it was intended.
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