Value -I apologize in advance

[2001f4s]

I am guessing this is one of the least favorite topics, and I am sorry to be indelicate with my first post.

I am considering purchasing a 1952 Roadster 4AD in fair shape. Can someone tell me what these cars are worth in concourse condition. I'm surprised at how relatively inexpensive they are in rough condition compared to compable Austin Healey, MG's, and Triumph.

I'm not looking at the purchase as a money making venture, but I would like to get an idea of how much of my investment could be recovered.

Thank you in advance.
Scott

[BRG]

Scott,

I'll take a stab at this. Concourse condition meaning just like off the showroom floor. Maybe as high as $18,000. Normal restoration range would be between $10,000 and $15,000. Please keep in mind these prices are subject to how bad the person wants the car. Please anyone else with an answer chime in.

BRG

[Peter McKercher]

I would concur with Dave's opinion, insofar as there are so few post war concours Singers. There are a number of Singers that are in excellent condition and these typically go for the price range suggested by Dave. There are only a couple of Singers in North America that I would classify as concours and the cost of bringing them to that level certainly well exceeds their market value. Accordingly, it is unlikely these cars would ever be offered for sale at the $18,000 level. I should add that the insured value of these cars does take into account restoration costs rather than market value.

[2001f4s]

Dave and Peter,
Thank you for the quick and insightful responses.
With the rarity of these cars I am surprised at their low values. It seems that many newer more "run of the mill" British cars value out at a lot higher price. This is the impression I was getting, but I wanted to get some more specific advice, which you have provided.

Can I also ask about the parts network. It seems that some of the items are standard off the shelf Lucas or Girling items. But are most of the Singer specific parts usually sourced from UK suppliers?

Thanks again
Scott

[Peter McKercher]

Scott

It was very tough for Singer to measure up to the cachet of the MG in North America after WWII and they were always in short supply anyway so it was a double whammy. Consequently the MG's have been viewed as more collectible and their value in comparison reflects this. And when a car is affordable with very little upside to support a costly restoration, it tends simply to be driven.

I'm sure there will always be a divide between the value of the two marques. However, more Singers are now being well restored, perhaps due to a scarce supply of other collectibles or a recognition that the Roadster is a very fine little car (it certainly out performs the MG TD). Accordingly, I believe we will see a significant upswing in values. It really has already started.

As I mentioned previously, we have a couple of cars in the club that could be considered to be concourse restorations, one of them actully having won a concourse two years ago at Stowe. It followed up with an appearance at the Quail at Pebble Beach - not an easy event to get into. We have several other members with cars that are quite exceptional that routinely win Best of Show or People's Choice awards at shows across North America.

With respect to parts, yes there are commonalities with other British marques for electrical and braking components. Proprietary Singer parts are available through the North American Singer Owners Club and Kip Motors (Dallas) on this side of the pond. The best sources however are through the British Singer clubs

[Mark Thompson]

I have a 1952 4AD that I restored from a condition that most people would have said was not worth restoring. I did most of the work myself and spent between $25,000 and $30,000 in the process. The majority of that money went into the chrome, paint and upholstery work which I did not do. I have been to about 40 car shows in the past ten years and have 45 trophies and awards. I have been to 4 concours and have placed either 1st or second in class in three of them. ( In one of them I proudly placed second behind a jaguar that Clark Gable had previously raced and wrecked.) I have driven the car over 16,000 miles and enjoyed every minute of it. I would have to say that value is not always measured in dollars. On at least two occasions I have received offers (that I believed were serious!) of six figures. On those occasions, my reply was "maybe some day, but not today". Some of you may think that I need to have my head examined, but my reply would be the same if I received another offer of that magnitude today.

Best Regards and enjoying every minute behind the wheel of my Singer,

Mark Thompson

[Peter McKercher]

Mark,

I have not seen your car in the flesh, but based on all accounts, I would have placed yours in the concourse eligible category. So yours makes for two that have officially won concours events. I suggested to Pim Visser that he too should have placed his in the concours at Stowe as I feel he could have won.

That some of our folks are spending this sort of time and money on these cars will unquestionably raise the profile and value of the marque. Some may view this as a negative and it may well exclude some potential buyers. On the other hand, an increased value means that spending money on a restoration is not lost and more cars will be saved.

[2001f4s]

Thanks Mark and Peter.

I have restored some other British cars that were not worth financially restoring, but the enjoyment, and the pride I experienced made it well worth it. The uniqueness of the Singer is what attracts me. I have owned cars from almost all the British marks, and I have attended many shows. I cannot recall seeing too many Singers along the way.

While I am not looking at this car as a potential investment, it would be nice to know that I can get my money out if needed.

Thank you again
Scott

[kabu]

Hi,

I have always considered my restoring cars as a pure hobby and great pastime. Being such, you don't really expect any monetary return for your time and money you spend on that. People have many different hobbies and a person that plays golf, travel, goes fishing, and what ever else people do, don't expect monetary return on their time and money they spend on their hobby. Why should restoring cars be any different? In fact, it one of few hobbies where you even have possibility to get back some of the money you have spent.

Best Regards,
Pekka

[Stephen]

I agree with Pekka,.. but in saying that, while restoring my Singer I still watch every penny, and look for an alternative way to purchase items without sacrificing quality.
Here in Australia, within the last 3 months we had a fully restored, but slightly modified 9AB sell for $22,000 au.( I new the owner and the car)
Yet on ebay a restored 9AB 271171523009 sold for $15,000 which I consider to be a better vehicle than the modified Singer ..
Stephen