OK, folks, I am new to the community, and I can be counted among those who have seen some of your Singers at Stowe and been intrigued. Spring is the time of year that I start intensive Craigslist searches for everything from Thames Panel Trucks to Lancia Fulvias, and I ran across a 1951 Singer Roadster in California recently. It's definitely a project, but to what extent I do not know. The story I have been given is that it was in the process of being restored (whose definition of "restored" they were using I do not know), but that it was driven to the consignment lot under its own power and braking.
I am awaiting more and better pictures, so there isn't much to go on. Also, these photos are linked from Craigslist, so they will disappear from the post as soon as the CL ad does...
Anyhow, I kind of like the ratty look on it (though it would be treated to paint at some point), and the interior looks recently attended to. I am tempted to look into it further,but I frankly am uncertain where to begin, especially on price. I put my Riley 1.5 back on the road after a 20 year slumber, so I'm not a complete neophyte here, but Singers are different beasts.
This, of course brings me to the topic of price, to which the only valid answer is "it depends". Having said that, though, what price range to these cars trade in? Obviously a basket case could be worth as little as $0, and if Steve McQueen drove one in LeMans it would probably be worth $66,000,000. However, I am just trying to get a feel for "is it bigger than a breadbox", as in "They tend to go somewhere between $X and $Y, depending on condition" and perhaps "These years are more desirable" and so-on and so-forth.
I know, it's a tough question answer. Based on this car on eBay and basic common sense, I'm guessing that the asking price is wildly optimistic. What do you all think?
Tom
The Dreaded Question: Prices!
Re: The Dreaded Question: Prices!
This is a 4AD model. The twin carb version is the rarer one but they came out late 1952 or so. From the pictrues and you statement was driven under its own power and brakes. i would venture a guess as to $3,000- 6,000. Again depending on what has been done and to how original the drive train is.
From what I see looks correct on the exterior and the uhpholstry looks fairly correct.
From what I see looks correct on the exterior and the uhpholstry looks fairly correct.
NASOC Treasurer
NASOC 4AD Registrar
NASOC Parts Guy
Owner of a 1952 4AD, 1959 Singer Gazelle Estate, & 1959 Gazelle Convertible
NASOC 4AD Registrar
NASOC Parts Guy
Owner of a 1952 4AD, 1959 Singer Gazelle Estate, & 1959 Gazelle Convertible
Re: The Dreaded Question: Prices!
Thanks for the reply! I'm glad that your ideas on price seem to fall in line with my own.
Of course, the seller is asking $11,350 or something similar. Stranger things have happened!
Tom
Of course, the seller is asking $11,350 or something similar. Stranger things have happened!
Tom
Re: The Dreaded Question: Prices!
Hey Tom,
Well, since Singer is the Featured Marque this coming September at Stowe, that might be a good reason to haggle with the owner! It would be great to see you at the event with a Singer and you would be warmly welcomed!
I'd agree with Dave's assessment. If it is a '51 it is an early single carb model and looks quite straight and unmolested judging from the photos. Wiper arms and motor seems to be missing, but can be sourced. Original engine and drivetrain is important to price and make sure the ash wood frame is in good shape. It's not a fun job to do! You'll probably find some cracks in the aluminum body, but they are all like that and an easy fix. If it has lived all its life in California, chances are it is solid. If you can work on a Riley 1.5 or an MG TD, the Singer represents no mysteries. We are all here to support you if you decide to take on the challenge!
Best of luck and hope you get her! I don't think you will regret joining the Singer fraternity or..The Men in White!
Well, since Singer is the Featured Marque this coming September at Stowe, that might be a good reason to haggle with the owner! It would be great to see you at the event with a Singer and you would be warmly welcomed!
I'd agree with Dave's assessment. If it is a '51 it is an early single carb model and looks quite straight and unmolested judging from the photos. Wiper arms and motor seems to be missing, but can be sourced. Original engine and drivetrain is important to price and make sure the ash wood frame is in good shape. It's not a fun job to do! You'll probably find some cracks in the aluminum body, but they are all like that and an easy fix. If it has lived all its life in California, chances are it is solid. If you can work on a Riley 1.5 or an MG TD, the Singer represents no mysteries. We are all here to support you if you decide to take on the challenge!
Best of luck and hope you get her! I don't think you will regret joining the Singer fraternity or..The Men in White!
Your Friendly Canadian Pre-War Singer Specialist, Collector & Historian,
Editor & Pre-War Registrar & Canadian Contact -NASOC
Singer Enthusiast for over 40 Years.
'28 Senior, '33 & '34 Sports, '36 Le Mans SS & Bantam
Editor & Pre-War Registrar & Canadian Contact -NASOC
Singer Enthusiast for over 40 Years.
'28 Senior, '33 & '34 Sports, '36 Le Mans SS & Bantam
- Mark Thompson
- Posts: 196
- Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2005 8:51 pm
- First Name: Mark
- Location: Nashville, TN
Re: The Dreaded Question: Prices!
I think you all are selling our marque a little short! If the woodwork is okay, and the drivetrain is original and runs and the interior needs minimal work.....
The chrome appears from the pictures to be in good shape. The interior, woodwork and chrome can each be a major expense. I'm thinking more like $7500 - $10,000. 3-6K would be a steal!
Just my 2 cents worth,
Mark Thompson
The chrome appears from the pictures to be in good shape. The interior, woodwork and chrome can each be a major expense. I'm thinking more like $7500 - $10,000. 3-6K would be a steal!
Just my 2 cents worth,
Mark Thompson
Re: The Dreaded Question: Prices!
Mark,
In my experience, the difference between what you are quoting and what the others are quoting comes down to marketing. Same car, sold for more $$$ when properly presented so as to be visible to a wider audience.
Hopefully those additional photos I have been promised will show up and provide some more clues as to the true condition of this car!
Tom
In my experience, the difference between what you are quoting and what the others are quoting comes down to marketing. Same car, sold for more $$$ when properly presented so as to be visible to a wider audience.
Hopefully those additional photos I have been promised will show up and provide some more clues as to the true condition of this car!
Tom
- Peter McKercher
- Posts: 1074
- Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2005 4:26 am
- First Name: Peter
- Location: Ontario, Canada
- Contact:
Re: The Dreaded Question: Prices!
Tom/Mark
I agree that $6k would be a steal, if the basics are solid and the chrome is done, but that's the penalty to the seller for putting the car on the market without tending to the aesthetics. That's not selling the marque short, that's just reality. I have an MG TD that is in the same state and have had offers up to about $8k - not nearly what it is worth. On the flip side, to complete the restoration, you will likely have in it what the car is worth. So in terms of an investment, it will likely perform as well as most people's equity investments these days (not losing anything, but not ahead).
I agree that $6k would be a steal, if the basics are solid and the chrome is done, but that's the penalty to the seller for putting the car on the market without tending to the aesthetics. That's not selling the marque short, that's just reality. I have an MG TD that is in the same state and have had offers up to about $8k - not nearly what it is worth. On the flip side, to complete the restoration, you will likely have in it what the car is worth. So in terms of an investment, it will likely perform as well as most people's equity investments these days (not losing anything, but not ahead).
Peter McKercher
Vice President - NASOC
Pre war Singer Specialist and Collector
Automotive Historian
Author of "Racing Roadsters"
Vice President - NASOC
Pre war Singer Specialist and Collector
Automotive Historian
Author of "Racing Roadsters"