Water Pump Seals

The 4A, 4AB, 4AC, 4AD cars, including the SM 1500 Roadster and SMX
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Mark Thompson
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Water Pump Seals

Postby Mark Thompson » Tue Jan 20, 2009 6:52 pm

My 1952 4AD developed a leak in the water pump. I posted a request on the bulletin board for a source for a mechanical seal with no response. I did some checking on my own with a local industrial seal supplier. They came up with a U.S Seal, part # PS-142 that fits and works fine. Just passing this along in case it might help someone else. This seal requires no machining of the impeller as some other substitute seals do.

Regards,
Mark Thompson

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Re: Water Pump Seals

Postby mikeyr » Wed Jan 21, 2009 7:12 pm

Great news, the water pump is one of the little items (but really important) that we don't have a lot of info on for this car.

I will be needing one of those seals in a few months myself.
Mike Rambour. Site Administrator
1953 Singer 4ADT (sold), 1934 Singer 9 Le Mans, 1934 Singer 1 1/2 4-Seater Sports, 2009 BMW K1300GT

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Peter McKercher
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Re: Water Pump Seals

Postby Peter McKercher » Thu Jan 22, 2009 4:08 am

Dave
Do we have this on the interchange list?
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Re: Water Pump Seals

Postby Paul Bouchard » Thu Jan 22, 2009 5:28 am

Mark,

Great research! You are the clever one. Yet another great use of the club resources (the net) to help out new (and not so new) members with valuable info.

Paul
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Re: Water Pump Seals

Postby Mark Thompson » Thu Jan 22, 2009 1:37 pm

Paul,
Thanks for the kind words. I never would have been able to complete my restoration without the contributions of all our fellow enthusiasts at NASOC. Glad to be of help. By the way the seal only cost about $15. A few years back, I purchased a spare seal from Trevor Cornelius , but that seal was oversized by about 1/16 inch in diameter. It worked but it required machining the impeller. My current project, the 1953 4ADT has not been machined. So now I have to keep spares for both sizes.

My water pump housing needed the face lapped to mate with the mechanical seal. Since the surface is recessed there is a problem getting to it with conventional lapping techniques. I successfully used a discarded engine valve to lap the surface.
I chucked the valve in my drill press, set the speed to the slowest, and used valve lapping compound. You need to be sure the drill press table is square to the spindle. It didn't take long at all to get the surface back smooth enough to seal.

Best Regards,
Mark Thompson

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Re: Water Pump Seals

Postby Stephen » Fri Nov 22, 2013 7:26 am

Hi Mark .. reading with interest your message on the water pump seal ..
I have purchased a US SEAL PS-142 to replace my water pump seal and is very tight when installed..this seal came in 2 sections and is considerably higher than the original seal I took out of the water pump which is in one part.
I have tried to upload some photos so you can compare them, but not sure if they will work out,..
The question is ... was your water pump tight when you installed the PS-142 seal, and did you use both parts of the seal


[img=http://s6.postimg.org/reo5hovtp/002.jpg]

[img=http://s6.postimg.org/bizbee599/003.jpg]

[img=http://s6.postimg.org/xtn6ed2jh/004.jpg]

Regards
Stephen

!!!! Added the images to the post, Mike
002.jpg
002.jpg (10.37 KiB) Viewed 60 times
003.jpg
003.jpg (12.69 KiB) Viewed 60 times
004.jpg
004.jpg (12.69 KiB) Viewed 60 times

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Mark Thompson
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Re: Water Pump Seals

Postby Mark Thompson » Fri Nov 22, 2013 12:16 pm

Hello Stephen,
Yes, it is a snug fit that requires pressing in. You shouldn't have to use great force to get it to go in though. If you are having a problem you might try leaving the seal in the freezer for a couple of hours before pressing in. As I recall the second part is a ceramic face that is used on another model pump and is not used in the Singer water pump.
Hope this helps.

Best Regards, Mark Thompson

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Re: Water Pump Seals

Postby Stephen » Fri Nov 22, 2013 8:14 pm

Hi Mark .. Thank you for your fast response ..
I had both parts of the seal in the pump, because that's how it came in the box and I thought it was the correct way to assemble, but the impeller would not turn when assembled, I will now remove the extra ceramic part .
Once again thank you for your help..
Regards
Stephen

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Mark Thompson
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Re: Water Pump Seals

Postby Mark Thompson » Sat Nov 23, 2013 1:11 pm

Glad to help. Be sure to examine the water pump housing for a smooth mating surface for the seal. See the note above about resurfacing the pump housing if needed. Good luck.

Best Reagrds,
Mark Thompson

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Re: Water Pump Seals

Postby klaus » Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:09 pm

hi
sorry to hi jack this thread.

i need assistance

i took my pump from my 1952 nine apart to day.
no seals at all!

the above thread mentioned seals, how big is it.
i found a repair kit with one axel and two seals !

do i need one or two ? i have no exploded wiew of the pump.
DSCF8481.JPG

there seems to very little room for it in my housing.
i made a pichture to show the type.
i found the PS142 seal in UK, will that work with my pump ?

greethings from
klaus
denmark

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Re: Water Pump Seals

Postby klaus » Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:11 pm

just to clarify,
same pichture twice, i am not shure on how to delete one of them, sorry,
klaus

!!!! Fixed it, removed one pic. Mike

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Re: Water Pump Seals

Postby klaus » Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:19 pm

and link to rep set:
javascript:popupWindow('http://geros1968.com/index.php?main_page=popup_image&pID=946')
klaus

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Re: Water Pump Seals

Postby klaus » Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:45 pm

try this link:
http://geros1968.com/index.php?main_pag ... ge&pID=946

!!!! Added the image, Mike
ac89.JPG
ac89.JPG (43.29 KiB) Viewed 61 times

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kabu
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Re: Water Pump Seals

Postby kabu » Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:36 pm

Hi Klaus,

That is correct, there are no seals near the bearings, just the thread on the axle (called oil retainer in the picture below). The water seal is between the impeller and the bearing housing shown in your pictures. Below is a cross sectional view from the pump, taken from the SM1500 Technical Service Manual. The seal is the part C. It is a spring loaded graphite ring that seats against a flat surface on the inner end of the bearing housing. The seal shown in the link you posted looks correct, at least it is of correct type.

water_pump.JPG


Best Regards,
Pekka
4ADT Roadster, 1954 --- http://www.guru-group.fi/kabu/singer

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Re: Water Pump Seals

Postby klaus » Sat Dec 02, 2017 7:28 pm

thank you Pekka,
a drawing explains it very well.
i ordered the gland/seal i found in UK.
thank you again.

ps
would it be nice if we al collected drawings , partsl list, alternative spares a.s.o.
on these pages ?
klaus


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