4AD Seat Mount Rails

The 4A, 4AB, 4AC, 4AD cars, including the SM 1500 Roadster and SMX
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fly4ad
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4AD Seat Mount Rails

Postby fly4ad » Fri Sep 23, 2016 11:08 pm

I’m now at the point of mounting the seats in my 4AD project, and discovered that the seat tracks (rails) are not the original, they seem to be MG TD or similar. The driver’s seat was adjustable; while the passenger seat was hard mounted using four brackets on each corner and is non-adjustable. I’m assuming this is not correct and original. With that said and in my online research, the original tracks appear to be semi fragile and possibly hard to get. I would like to use OEM tracks, or is there a better substitute? I’m open to suggestions as to what to do at this point! Once I mount the driver’s seat, the plan is to crank the engine for the first time and possibly give it a test drive once the engine is sufficiently tested and broken in.

By the way and in case anyone is interested, I have recently added a few more photos to the restoration website at:

http://www.1952singer.weebly.com

Thanks for the help,
Fred

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kabu
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Re: 4AD Seat Mount Rails

Postby kabu » Sat Sep 24, 2016 8:22 am

Hi Fred,

I have some pictures of the original seat rails and they look like this

Singer_seat_runners.png
Singer Seat Runners
Singer_seat_runners.png (124.05 KiB) Viewed 661 times


You can find some more pictures on my web site.
http://www.guru-group.fi/~kabu/index.ph ... 1#category

The rails are quite simple and as you suspected, apparently not very strong as the seats are held in place by small discs that are riveted to the rail and can quite easily bend. At least mine were somewhat damaged and did not slide easily and I had to repair them. In the picture above they are already repaired and replated.

I think you should be able to find quite similar aftermarket seat rails (or seat runners) that can be adapted to place.

Best Regards,
Pekka
4ADT Roadster, 1954 --- http://www.guru-group.fi/kabu/singer

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Re: 4AD Seat Mount Rails

Postby fly4ad » Sat Sep 24, 2016 8:54 am

Thanks for the photo Pekka, this is definitely not what I have. Maybe I should stay with the MG type rails and simply find another for the passenger side? There must have been a clearance problem since there were 1/2” wood strips under the rails to get them up off the floor. Anybody know of a good substitute?

By the way Pekka, if you’ve been to my web site, do you recognize the choke and starter knobs? Thanks again and good job! :P

Fred

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Re: 4AD Seat Mount Rails

Postby kabu » Sun Sep 25, 2016 8:32 am

Hi Fred,

The original configuration actually has wooden strips under the seat rails, so those might actually be original. I have seen completely similar strips on two different cars. Here are a couple of photos showing the parts; there is a flat wooden strip and a wedge shaped wooden block to match the slope on the rear footwell. I do not have the exact dimensions at hand but could check that when I visit my garage today.

unrestored_rail_parts.png
Unrestored Rails
unrestored_rail_parts.png (418.71 KiB) Viewed 649 times


restored_rails_installed.png
Restored Rails Installed
restored_rails_installed.png (597.39 KiB) Viewed 649 times


Best Regards,
Pekka

PS. I did look at your restoration photos and noticed the familiar looking choke and start knobs :-) Your car looks great, good job!
4ADT Roadster, 1954 --- http://www.guru-group.fi/kabu/singer

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Re: 4AD Seat Mount Rails

Postby kabu » Sun Sep 25, 2016 10:37 am

Hi Fred,

I took some measurements from my car. The wooden strips are ~28mm (1 1/8") wide, ~10mm (3/8") thick and ~380mm (15") long, the same length as the seat rail. When installed with these original wood strips and the seat rails, the bottom of the seat is ~30mm (1 1/4") above the floor and this perhaps the measurement to look for when using some other seat rails.

Best Regards,
Pekka
4ADT Roadster, 1954 --- http://www.guru-group.fi/kabu/singer

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Re: 4AD Seat Mount Rails

Postby fly4ad » Sun Sep 25, 2016 12:02 pm

Thanks Pekka, this is all valuable information that will help significantly, the photos are a huge help also! Now to find a suitable substitute, unless someone has a set of OEM rails that they would like to part with! I need them for both seats.

Thanks again for all the help! Fred

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Re: 4AD Seat Mount Rails

Postby fly4ad » Sun Sep 25, 2016 11:00 pm

Ok, so the more I research seats and photos, I now realize that my front seats are different than the pictures I'm seeing of other 4AD cars. :roll: Can anyone tell me if these are Singer seats, or are these borrowed from something else! The photos below show a removable seat cushion bottom (underside) which fits into a steel frame which is mounted to the adjustable seat rails.
Thanks, Fred
Attachments
2-IMG_1258.JPG
7-IMG_1263.JPG
5-IMG_1261.JPG

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Re: 4AD Seat Mount Rails

Postby mikeyr » Mon Sep 26, 2016 3:40 pm

those seats are not 4AD seats, the bottom was not perforated like that... Does not mean they won't work though.
Mike Rambour. Site Administrator
1953 Singer 4ADT (sold), 1934 Singer 9 Le Mans, 1934 Singer 1 1/2 4-Seater Sports, 2009 BMW K1300GT

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Re: 4AD Seat Mount Rails

Postby fly4ad » Mon Sep 26, 2016 5:11 pm

Thanks Mike! After diligent searching, I think these may be from alate 50's or early 60's Austin Healey Bugeye Srite or similar. At least I now know that these seats were never offered from the Singer factory! Looks like a trip to see Paul Barber is in order! Oh well :?
Again, thanks for all the help!
Fred

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Re: 4AD Seat Mount Rails

Postby mikeyr » Tue Sep 27, 2016 2:53 pm

unfortunately, in the gallery there are only 2 pictures of seats and they don't show the detail you need but its enough to figure out what you are looking for.

http://gallery.singercars.com/index.php ... s/PICT0189

and here is a completed seat

http://gallery.singercars.com/index.php ... 030601-016
Mike Rambour. Site Administrator
1953 Singer 4ADT (sold), 1934 Singer 9 Le Mans, 1934 Singer 1 1/2 4-Seater Sports, 2009 BMW K1300GT

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Re: 4AD Seat Mount Rails

Postby fly4ad » Wed Nov 02, 2016 5:23 pm

After realizing that the seats in my roadster are not OEM Singer, I paid a visit to my friend Paul Barber in Cedartown GA. I pieced together what I thought were for my 1952 4AD, but after getting them home and taking a close look, even these seat backs and bases were for an earlier Singer. I was not aware that between the 4A model and the 4AB model, the seats were redesigned with a different base and higher seat back, how lucky could I be! So my last resort was to contact another good friend Fred Zampa in Macon GA to see what he might have left from a 52 4AD that he was parting out. The good news was that he had a set of seats that he was willing to swap with my Sprite seats! The bad news is that they are in very bad shape. The seat backs are rusted beyond hope, so I’ll have to make a new set, and the wood bases are falling apart. The main question is this, on the wooden bases, on the back edge, there are three long bolts that are positioned vertically, what are these for? In the picture below taken from Pekka’s website, these bolts are barely visible along the right side of the photo. Is there a piece of wood that belongs there that was missing on my seats? Any help on this issue would be greatly appreciated! Since the photos is so small, click here to see a better picture: http://www.guru-group.fi/~kabu/index.ph ... 1#category
Thanks again,
Fred
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seat_restoration_20100326_1778142742.jpg
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Re: 4AD Seat Mount Rails

Postby kabu » Fri Nov 04, 2016 1:42 pm

Hi Fred,

The vertical bolts near the rear edge of the seat bottom, that I think you are referring to, are for attaching a wooden bumper part over the seat bottom rear edge. The lower edge of the seat back leans against this bumper.

It seems that I do not have an y picture on my web site that would show this. I will check my photo archive if I have a picture showing this, or take some new pictures from my car during the weekend.

Best Regards,
Pekka
4ADT Roadster, 1954 --- http://www.guru-group.fi/kabu/singer

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Re: 4AD Seat Mount Rails

Postby mikeyr » Fri Nov 04, 2016 3:09 pm

I was sure the image gallery here on this site had pictures of that but i can't find one :(

Either way, Kabu is right about it being the bumper for the seat back.
Mike Rambour. Site Administrator
1953 Singer 4ADT (sold), 1934 Singer 9 Le Mans, 1934 Singer 1 1/2 4-Seater Sports, 2009 BMW K1300GT

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Re: 4AD Seat Mount Rails

Postby fly4ad » Mon Nov 07, 2016 4:08 pm

Thanks guys! With your help I think I now have a good idea of what it should be. Here are some good pictures thanks to Mark Thompson.
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Seat Back Stop4.jpg
Seat Back Stop4.jpg (25.15 KiB) Viewed 499 times
Seat Back Stop2.jpg
Seat Back Stop2.jpg (29.86 KiB) Viewed 499 times


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