Body Parts ???

The 4A, 4AB, 4AC, 4AD cars, including the SM 1500 Roadster and SMX
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Mark Thompson
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Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2005 8:51 pm
First Name: Mark
Location: Nashville, TN

Body Parts ???

Post by Mark Thompson »

I am looking for the aluminum body panel that wraps around the rear tub on a 1953 4ADT. The one I am restoring has a right and left panel but is missing the rear section below the boot lid. It appears the panels were separated rather haphazardly and irregularly (cut unevenly). On my 1952 4AD the rear tub was all one piece. I am talking to someone about purchasing a rear tub assembly, but he is not sure if it is for a 4A or 4AD. He says that it has seams in the rear and looks like it is made in three pieces. He also has the rear piece that is has been removed from a tub and appears to have been removed at the same seam location. This raises several questions for me.

1. Are the rear tub body panels interchangable on the 4A & 4AD, 4ADT?

2. Did these body panels come from the factory as one piece units or three separate pieces that were seamed together?

3. If they were initially one piece or three pieces and the design changed, when did they change? And are they interchangeable?

Thanks for any light that anyone can shed on this subject. I am definitely in the dark!

Best Regards,
Mark Thompson
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Phillip
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Location: Quebec, Canada

Re: Body Parts ???

Post by Phillip »

Hey Mark,

The one part of the post-war Roadster series that is the same is the main body tub. There may have been subtle variations; the change to a steel bulkhead, the removal of the scuttle ventilators and standard trafficator holes, and certainly the car contained much hand-finishing, but the basic design didn't really change.

Although I am currently purely a 'Pre-Warrior', I've owned and worked on every model of post-war Roadster except the 4AC, so will dredge what i can from my memory.

Some notes about the tail:

The A / 4A / 4AB ( though not all ) had the license plate / tail lamp pressing in the lower panel below the boot lid. This was for the fitting of a long rectangular license plate and a single Lucas 'D Lamp'. With the introduction of the 4AD model, the tail was changed the a smooth finish, a separate square license plate panel was attached at an angle and the tail lights were added to the rear wings.

I recall from removing the rear skin that there are six pieces that make up the rear skin: One each side from the door post to the mid point of the fender; One each side from the mid point of the fender to the line level with the bottom of the boot lid; one piece across the bottom below the boot lid; and one thin strip across above the boot lid.

The 4AD and 4ADT would have the same body tub and sheet metal. The main differences were mechanical.

Finally, in my experience, the lower rear panel is often the worst piece on the car. It is usually either bashed in, broken off, or the wood has rotted away!

Hope that helps!

Hope also that we will see you at Mad Dogs in Michigan for the 40th Anniversary celebrations there!

Cheers,
Phillip
Your Friendly Canadian Pre-War Singer Specialist, Collector & Historian,
Editor & Pre-War Registrar & Canadian Contact -NASOC
Singer Enthusiast for over 40 Years.
'28 Senior, '33 & '34 Sports, '36 Le Mans SS & Bantam
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Mark Thompson
Posts: 196
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2005 8:51 pm
First Name: Mark
Location: Nashville, TN

Re: Body Parts ???

Post by Mark Thompson »

Hello Phillip,

The six parts makes sense from a fabrication perspective. When I restored my 1952 4AD, I replaced most of the wood on the tub and removed the skin in one piece. It must have been seamed quite well, as I was unable to detect any weld lines in the skin. I'll have to go back and look at some of my photos I took of the skin while it was off the car.

As always, you provide a wealth of knowledge about all things Singer. Thanks for you help. I guess I'll buy that lower panel instead of trying to track down a complete tub.

Best Regards,
Mark
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Phillip
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Location: Quebec, Canada

Re: Body Parts ???

Post by Phillip »

My pleasure Mark and thank you for the kind comments!

There is no doubt the boys on the Singer production line could do some nifty aluminum welding. As you say, it is sometimes difficult to find the weld points. If you look carefully at the way the body is designed, you can see it would have taken a huge press and a very complicated die to make the back section in one piece. The Roadster was a low-volume car and the company had not reinvested in modern tooling. There was a lack of funds and a lot of hand finishing. The shops used to produce the Roadster dated back to the '20's in some cases and certainly the construction technique was basically the same as used on all the previous sports cars dating back to the early '30s'.

Ironically Singer did have one of the largest presses in the UK, made in the USA and called "Big Bertha". It was used to bash out chassis sections and wings, etc. It was said that the china would rattle off the shelves of houses in the area when the big beast was in action.

To see how Singer 'evolved' the Roadster rather than redesigned it, you just have to look at the ancestry. It has been said that the inspiration came from the Australian locally made Bantam 'Roadster' models, but if you look at the 1937 B37 1.5 litre 4 cylinder sports car you will notice many of the design cues that were carried over into the Roadster: scuttle; windshield; doors; rear slope, rear wing line, etc.

The R type Roadster produced before the war is more a distant cousin of the last of the Le Mans lines, being based on the same Bantam chassis and using an almost identical scuttle assembly. Had the Le Mans continued, it would have no doubt been fitted with an uprated version of the three bearing 1074cc engine used in the R type. At least one Le Mans was converted by the factory and the engine fits nicely. Post-War, the longer 'Light Ten' chassis was used for the A type and the template laid down that would serve the Roadster until the end of production.
Your Friendly Canadian Pre-War Singer Specialist, Collector & Historian,
Editor & Pre-War Registrar & Canadian Contact -NASOC
Singer Enthusiast for over 40 Years.
'28 Senior, '33 & '34 Sports, '36 Le Mans SS & Bantam
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