zzzz sure went quiet in here, so here is a question

[mikeyr]

What is wrong with the Black Le Mans currently on Ebay ?

It seems nice and original enough but it has not gotten any bids at all, granted the starting bid seems high but it is where I would have expected it to close at so maybe its a "known" car in the UK and there is something wrong ? or am I that way off in my thinking that it is fairly priced.

Although not a lot of details on the car it does look fairly complete in the pictures. So lets open a discussion and keep last weeks activity going, what is it about the car that has not gotten it any bids yet.

Mike

a link to the car at Ebay

p.s. I AM NOT the seller and I don't care if the car gets sold or not (just a friendly disclaimer to prevent a repeat of last weeks car for sale fun)

[Peter McKercher]

It hasn't been licensed for 10 years, it looks like it was brush painted, the chrome is rough, the interior seems to be missing as is the steering wheel and the condition of the undercarriage looks generally rough. The starting bid is probably 20% higher than the closing bid should be and even at that the reserve has not been met. The seller is going for the long shot.

[mikeyr]

Wow, guess I am out of touch with prices.

I figured because the car is fairly complete (I see nothing obvious missing, the text does say the wheel and interior are stored and will go with the car) and looks good (read non-rusty from what can be seen) that it would close near 10k which unfortunately is the starting point. I fully agree that as a starting price it is ridiculous but I would have expected it IF it had a lower starting price to end up near 10k, not above 10 just near 10.

I guess looking at this way and in US $ its priced at 20k and when finished it would be worth 30-35, its safe to assume that if you had anyone work on the restoration it would be a loss, so ok. Maybe it is more off than I thought, I had not given this a lot of thought, I was just surprised at no bids but it makes sense when I convert to US $.

[indian301]

I do not own a pre war Singer, but I love the looks of them. I sold my 1924 Harley Davidson with a sidecar last year because I was limited where I could ride it. I think it is the same with the pre war cars. They are hard to find parts for and the old men who own them are dying off. They can not keep up with modern traffic and people want cars that do. The younger guys want the muscle cars they grew up with. Look at Model T Fords. They used to be $10-12,000. You can buy a real nice one for $5-7,000 now. The pictures are not very clear of the ebay car so it is hard to tell the condition of the paint and other items. I know MG's of similar vintage are $20,000 plus, but I never heard of a pre war Singer going for that kind of money. I would think that given the economy and the dollar's weakness against the pound the owner is going to be keeping it for a while longer.

Dave
V-6 Singer 4AD

[mikeyr]

They are hard to find parts for and the old men who own them are dying off. They can not keep up with modern traffic and people want cars that do.

That part is true for most pre-war Singer's, the 4 cylinder ones can't keep up but the 6 cylinder ones easily can keep up.

I know MG's of similar vintage are $20,000 plus, but I never heard of a pre war Singer going for that kind of money.

Actually a pre-war Le Mans should go for mid-30's and they do pretty regularly. There is a 6 cylinder right now for sale for $74,000 at the current exchange rate so the pre-war cars do sell comparibly to MG's its just that a nice pre-war Singer is a very rare toy compared to a everyday pre-war restored MG. What you usually see is the non-restored Singers for sale.

I also saw your sig about the V6 4AD, the 4AD is the Honda of the Singer world and can easily keep up, I imagine with a V6 is won't be keeping up but it will be in the lead

[Peter McKercher]

Comparing model T's and A's with pre war sports cars is pretty much apples and oranges. There was a huge number of them built which automatically reduces there worth.

The pre war sports cars are extremely rare and while they fluctuate in value, they remain highly desirable and I believe represent a good investment (as good as a car investment can be). They are also fun to drive, although not intended for free way motoring

Location makes a difference as well. Pre war British and european cars will sell for a premium in Europe versus the U.S.

[indian301]

That part is true for most pre-war Singer's, the 4 cylinder ones can't keep up but the 6 cylinder ones easily can keep up.

Keep up at what speed? I have owned two 1967 Sunbeam Alpines. They were fun to drive, but you could not drive them all day at 55mph. I now live in Arizona where the highway speed limit is 75mph. British cars are a blast to drive, but are more suited to their homeland where speeds are lower and driving distances are shorter. Here in America the land of big most people will not drive them that far. I toured 13 countries in Europe and rode 7,000 miles on a 1957 Norton 600cc Dominator. It was a wonderful motorcycle that was designed for the countries where I toured.

As for comparing T's to A's. The point was that times change and the people who really were interested in these cars are dying off. The fact that a large number of them were built does not change the fact that 10 years ago the cars were worth more than they are today.

I love the fact that in England they are all about using their vintage vehicles. I was honored to visit a few nice collections when I was there.

As for the V-6 4 AD. It will be finished in about 1 month. I will be posting pictures next week when my internet connection speed is increased.

Dave

V-6 Singer 4AD

[Peter McKercher]

Dave
Yes you are correct. Times are changing and the folks that were too young for the Chargers and mustangs when they were new are now paying big bucks for them. And they certainly have little interest in our cars. However, I have a couple of years left in me yet, so I'll continue to collect the prewar cars. Hopefully there will be a market left when I need to get rid of them. Then again, that will likely be a problem my kids will have to deal with once I end up on the wrong side of the grass.

[mikeyr]

Keep up at what speed?

That remains to be seen

The 6cylinders are quoted as having a top speed of 90MPH and one of them in the UK was recently clocked on a track at over 100MPH.

With a advertised 90 top speed, I would think it will easily keep up with US Freeway speeds. Everyone tells me it will be fine.

I will know in about 6 months maybe a little more but the plan is by summer 2008 to have the 1 1/2 Litre on the road and get those 6 cylinders moving. If all goes well, it will be before summer.

Of course I also have 30 years of driving my 4AD everywhere, it was my only transportation for a few years even, so maybe my idea of keeping up is different than most

As to the choice of cars, that is really a individual choice but I have parked my little 4AD in between the big boys and gotten my share of attention, they want the big boys but many appreciate the little British cars as well, since my pre-war cars are not for sale, I don't care about what they are worth and it actually helps me collect more.

Mike (living in the land of the V-8)

[indian301]

Great points of view.

You are correct about the fact that cars that are obscure make it easier for us little guys to aquire them at a reasonable price. I purchased my Alpines 10 years ago for peanuts as well as a rusted out Tiger. That is what is great about our hobby, different points of view. Usually car guys can appreciate anything mechanical.

Dave
V-6 Singer 4AD

[BRG]

Getting off the subject abit here but we have driven my wifes S1 Alpine 1500 cc a good part of the day when we were in NM a couple of years back. I would drive my S4 anywhere and all day at 55mph. Now driving the Tiger is not a problem anywhere with a 260 and 5 speed T-5 trans.
Cruises 90 mph @ 3000 rpm! Got any parts left from Sunbeams???
BRG

[Peter McKercher]

Mike
Here's one more in keeping with the price you expect. See http://www.classicdriver.com/uk/find/41 ... ID=1753249

[mikeyr]

yup, closer to the price I am thinking they are worth.

And this one looks good too...Color strikes me odd, not a true BRG in my opinion (I know, no one knows what really is BRG) but it could also be the pictures.

[Peter McKercher]

Everyone knows what BRG is. He lives in Arizona.

[Peter McKercher]

Another le mans at http://www.prewarcar.com/show_prewar_ca ... r_id=47903 priced at about $33k