Washer stuck in timing chain

For now, I lumped all the pre-war cars together, I would LOVE for there to be enough demand to split it into groups (hint...hint, post here about your pre-war Singer)
ColinB
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Washer stuck in timing chain

Postby ColinB » Sat Oct 15, 2016 4:05 pm

A friend of mine with a 1928 saloon has foolishly played with the camshaft without stuffing rags in the chain case. The result is that a washer has fallen into the chain case and seems to have wedged in the sprocket/chain interface stopping it turning. We can't see it as its so tight in there so this is only a theory.

I went over today and tried to gently turn it on the handle but it was stuck fast. Any ideas on how to solve this without major dismantling of the engine? If we could turn the engine back it may free it but I'm not sure how to do that. I wonder if releasing the spring tensioner may create some slack so we can fish the washer out. The final option is to take the head off after marking the timing points so the chain is slack and we can have a decent poke about in there.

Any other thoughts?

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Re: Washer stuck in timing chain

Postby mikeyr » Sun Oct 16, 2016 8:23 pm

it is not normally recommended to turn a motor over backwards but if you want to try it, put the car in reverse and push it forward, that will turn the motor over backwards. I am assuming its assembled since you said you can't turn it over backwards with starting handle.
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Re: Washer stuck in timing chain

Postby ColinB » Mon Oct 17, 2016 7:21 am

Thanks Mike - that is a good idea. The plan is only to move the chain a couple of mm in reverse to see if it will create space for the washer to be hooked out.

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Re: Washer stuck in timing chain

Postby Mark Thompson » Mon Oct 17, 2016 11:17 am

I believe I would try to locate a video borescope and see what is going on down below. They are not expensive compared to an engine disassembly or an oil pan removal. If the washer drops in the oil pan, it will be difficult to retrieve.

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Re: Washer stuck in timing chain

Postby ColinB » Tue Oct 18, 2016 6:34 pm

I just bought a heap one on eBay. It should come on Friday but I can't visit my friend until next week. I'll let you know how I get on.

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Re: Washer stuck in timing chain

Postby ColinB » Fri Nov 04, 2016 7:44 pm

I went over to David's yesterday with my new toy to have a look but unfortunately I couldn't see anything untoward. I think the next stage is to take off the chain case. It is strange that the engine is so solidly seized - it doesn't move at all either in the handle or when put into gear and rocked the wrong way. I wonder if there is any other significant cause of such a solid seizure in a recently rebuilt engine?

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Re: Washer stuck in timing chain

Postby ColinB » Tue Nov 22, 2016 9:10 pm

We tried to take David's chain case off yesterday but it is stuck solid. Although the engine has been rebuilt recently David tells me that he had a real job getting the case to fit as it was from a different car. I think he had forced it over a couple of studs that are now biting into the soft ally. I couldnt use much force as I was concerned about breaking the aluminium so patience has been employed. I plan to remove the studs if possible as they are expendable so I have sent off for a couple of removal tools and replacement studs.

David isn't in good health so I'm happy to help him but I really don't want to break anything.

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Re: Washer stuck in timing chain

Postby ColinB » Wed Nov 30, 2016 7:58 pm

Got the timing cover off by removing the studs but no washers were to be seen. What a puzzle. The stuck part seems to be along the main crank/ starter handle. I hope this isn't ominous. I will have a look into the cylinders with my new toy just in case a valve has broken and fallen in blocking a piston. I am however not hopeful. I have been back to Dick Preston to search for further ideas. As I said to David (who is little despondent) at least we have narrowed the issue by finding what isn't the problem... :D

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Re: Washer stuck in timing chain

Postby ColinB » Wed Dec 07, 2016 8:04 am

Bores are clear so next thought is a broken ring. I'll get the head off later in the week to see if I can gently tap the pistons down. If nothing moves I'll take the sump off but that will be so messy ...... :o

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Re: Washer stuck in timing chain

Postby ColinB » Sun Oct 01, 2017 9:46 am

Just an update on my friend's engine. It turns out that he hadn't torqued up the head bolts so water had leaked into the bores completely rusting number 2 piston in position :o . The block is now with a local engineering company who will bore out all four cylinders and install oversize pistons which David has been fortunate to find with Dick Preston. They are second hand but in good condition with good rings so this should hopefully solve the problem. I plan to collect the block and reassemble the engine for him once the work is complete: I can lift the block in and out of the car on my own but I suspect it would be too heavy for me if the head was on it.

A piece of good luck for me associated with this is that in conversation with Dick it turns out that he has access to a Junior Tourer like mine, and he has agreed to send me detailed measurements of the hood frame so I can make my own. That will spur me on to restore the side screens too.

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Re: Washer stuck in timing chain

Postby cdk84 » Fri Oct 06, 2017 3:58 am

ColinB,

Good on you for helping out your friend David. Wish I were there to lend a hand.

Hope the project goes smoothly and that the Senior is soon on the road, as it deserves to be.

Very Best of Luck,

David

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Re: Washer stuck in timing chain

Postby ColinB » Fri Oct 06, 2017 3:44 pm

Engine is back from L A Whitmore & Co in Melton Constable. Nice old-school engineering shop who have time for a chat and did things in the quoted price that were not strictly required such as putting on a new timing chain and cleaning and priming the block. I'll be going there myself if I have any mechanical issues I can't cope with myself.

David will paint the block in his preferred colour ( I have no idea what it will be, probably green) then I'll go over and we'll get it back in the car. Picture shows him ruefully surveying his empty engine bay poor chap. He has re-built his 1928 saloon from a wreck found in a field in Norfolk over quite a few years. He also has a lovely Riley Lincock and has put me on the insurance as he isn't strong enough to drive it any more.....

Engine out.jpg

Riley 010 (1024x683).jpg

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Re: Washer stuck in timing chain

Postby cdk84 » Sat Oct 07, 2017 5:53 pm

Lovely to see him with his soon-to-be on the road Senior.

What is a Riley Lincock? I made a modest study of Rileys and don't recognise that model designation. It's a comely car.

Best to You Both,

David

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Re: Washer stuck in timing chain

Postby Peter McKercher » Sat Oct 07, 2017 10:26 pm

Lovely little pre war car. David - Here's one on BAT https://bringatrailer.com/2017/07/12/sh ... -9-linock/
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Re: Washer stuck in timing chain

Postby cdk84 » Sun Oct 08, 2017 5:46 pm

Hi Peter,

Thanks so much for the referral to BAT's listing of the Riley Lincock. I love the look of the car. I'll have to go back to my Riley book to determine if I didn't read closely enough or if this model wasn't included.

Hope all's well with you.

Cheers,

David


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