Flywheel and timing marks

For now, I lumped all the pre-war cars together, I would LOVE for there to be enough demand to split it into groups (hint...hint, post here about your pre-war Singer)
mfairbairn
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First Name: Martin
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Flywheel and timing marks

Postby mfairbairn » Sat Oct 08, 2016 4:31 pm

I fear this is going to be a really stupid question, but I'm new to classic cars (in fact, new to any form of car engineering) and I'm stuck.

I have a 1935 Singer 9 4-Seater Sports. After having had some wwork performed on the cylinder head, I think the timing might need adjusted, and I would at least like to check it. According to the original manual you should:

- remove engine top cover (I CAN do that!); and

- (remove) the flyweel inspection cover.

But where is the flywheel inspection cover? I think I might just have a flywheel inspection hole, which you can see in this video: https://youtu.be/eUXQEiNkfE4. But maybe that's something else altogether?!?

And if it is correct, what do the timing marks on the flywheel look like? From the above video I can't see anything obvious.

Many thanks to anyone who can point me in the right direction.

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Phillip
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Re: Flywheel and timing marks

Postby Phillip » Sun Oct 09, 2016 2:07 am

Hi,

The 'flywheel inspecton hole' is a round brass cap with a spring clip, covering a hole in the top of the gearbox bellhousing. The brass cover is often missing. You can just see the hole when you look down behind the rear engine cross member. Removing the toe board and front half of the tool deck is necessary to get a proper look at it and a flashlight will be needed to peer into it. The larger 'flywheel/clutch inspection cover' is a stamped metal plate held in place by two bolts on the top rear slope of the bell housing. This is readily visible with the toe board removed.

The flywheel has a 1/4 marking on it. If your have the original Neuton clutch, the clutch cover is also stamped 1/4. I would suggest painting this with a white line so that it is made more visible.

Hope that helps!
Your Friendly Canadian Pre-War Singer Specialist, Collector & Historian,
Editor & Pre-War Registrar & Canadian Contact -NASOC
Singer Enthusiast for over 40 Years.
'28 Senior, '33 & '34 Sports, '36 Le Mans SS & Bantam

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Phillip
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Re: Flywheel and timing marks

Postby Phillip » Sun Oct 09, 2016 3:22 am

Hi again,

Just happen to have a spare bellhousing in the Unobtainium Vault...

Singer Nine Bellhousing.jpg
Singer Nine Bellhousing.jpg (289.25 KiB) Viewed 375 times


This should give a clear indication on the various openings...

Hope that helps!
Your Friendly Canadian Pre-War Singer Specialist, Collector & Historian,
Editor & Pre-War Registrar & Canadian Contact -NASOC
Singer Enthusiast for over 40 Years.
'28 Senior, '33 & '34 Sports, '36 Le Mans SS & Bantam

mfairbairn
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:48 pm
First Name: Martin
number: 3

Re: Flywheel and timing marks

Postby mfairbairn » Sun Oct 09, 2016 7:58 am

Dear Philip,

That is really helpful, thank you!

This is a picture looking down towards what I thought was the flywheel inspection hole, which you're picture has confirmed as correct:

Image

However, I'm still stuck as to what I'm actually looking for in relation to the "1/4" mark. I can't see anything obvious from the viideo I took:

- https://youtu.be/eUXQEiNkfE4

Kind regards,

Martin Fairbairn

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Phillip
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Re: Flywheel and timing marks

Postby Phillip » Sun Oct 09, 2016 2:10 pm

Hi Martin,

Here's a photo of the clutch cover and stamped 1/4 marks. In this case, it is the original flywheel from my 1933 Nine Sports and there is actually no stamping on the flywheel from the factory. Punch marks were added later!

Singer Nine TDC Marks.jpg
Singer Nine TDC Marks.jpg (203.36 KiB) Viewed 361 times
Your Friendly Canadian Pre-War Singer Specialist, Collector & Historian,
Editor & Pre-War Registrar & Canadian Contact -NASOC
Singer Enthusiast for over 40 Years.
'28 Senior, '33 & '34 Sports, '36 Le Mans SS & Bantam

mfairbairn
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:48 pm
First Name: Martin
number: 3

Re: Flywheel and timing marks

Postby mfairbairn » Sun Oct 09, 2016 5:13 pm

Dear Philip,

Once again - many thanks.

We think we've got it now. Either side of a scribe on the flywheel there are marks that look like the following:

1 2 8 4 I 4 8 1 2

We're pretty sure the middle one is top dead centre. However, we're less sure about the other marks. I suspect my father added them on, but I can't find anything in his notes that explain them.

Best wishes,

Martin Fairbairn

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Phillip
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Re: Flywheel and timing marks

Postby Phillip » Mon Oct 10, 2016 2:37 am

Hi Martin

One way to find out is to take the plugs out and turn the engine over on the handle with the valve cove removed so that you can see the rockers moving. Watch until the inlet valve of number one cylinder closes. Have someone keep an eye on those timing marks as you slowly continue turning the handle bringing number one up on compression. I suspect the scribe line should be TDC and should appear as number one reaches the top of its stroke. The rocker moving on the exhaust side will tell you you have gone past. Another sure way is to drop the sump and observe the crank position.

If you remove the clutch inspection cover, hopefully you will see the 1/4 stamped on the clutch assembly.

I checked a 1934 Sports flywheel and a 1936 Bantam Saloon flywheel that I have and both were stamped 1/4 at TDC. Actually the '34 was also stamped 2/3 on the opposing side! These markings are on the flat edge of the flywheel. Funny that the '33 only had it stamped on the clutch cover. Also funny that the standard Sports clutch makes it almost impossible to see those marks when installed! Guess that is why they were also stamped the clutch!

Once you have determined the correct TDC I suggest doing the paint thing so it is visible for next time!

Hope that helps!
Your Friendly Canadian Pre-War Singer Specialist, Collector & Historian,
Editor & Pre-War Registrar & Canadian Contact -NASOC
Singer Enthusiast for over 40 Years.
'28 Senior, '33 & '34 Sports, '36 Le Mans SS & Bantam

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Phillip
Posts: 447
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 12:19 am
number: 0
Location: Quebec, Canada

Re: Flywheel and timing marks

Postby Phillip » Mon Oct 10, 2016 3:11 am

Hey again Martin,

Nipped down to the vault and snapped this:

Singer Nine Timing Marks.jpg
Singer Nine Timing Marks.jpg (276.89 KiB) Viewed 345 times


This is from my 1934 engine. The cover is not bolted in place so you see more of the marks on the flywheel, but you get the idea about what you should see (well...knowing Singer...what you might see) when your peer down the flywheel inspection hole!

In this case the mark on the clutch cover is stamped much higher up than on my 1933 engine.
Your Friendly Canadian Pre-War Singer Specialist, Collector & Historian,
Editor & Pre-War Registrar & Canadian Contact -NASOC
Singer Enthusiast for over 40 Years.
'28 Senior, '33 & '34 Sports, '36 Le Mans SS & Bantam


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